W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > October 2017

Re: [css-text-decor] Emphasis marks and auto-hiding ruby annotation

From: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 18:43:37 -0700
To: Shinyu Murakami <murakami@vivliostyle.com>
Cc: Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gmail.com>, Xidorn Quan <quanxunzhen@gmail.com>, www-style list <www-style@w3.org>
Message-ID: <92706130-ad6c-f020-080b-ccfff4901a37@inkedblade.net>
On 04/08/2017 04:54 AM, Shinyu Murakami wrote:
> fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net> wrote on 2016/12/27 21:35:26
>> On 11/13/2015 09:02 AM, Koji Ishii wrote:
>>> On 11/11/2015 11:02 AM, Xidorn Quan wrote:> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I have a question that, if the annotation of a character is
>>>> autohidden, where should the emphasis mark be drawn for this
>>>> character?
>>>
>>> In my personal opinion, especially when the middle part is missing, the
>>> former (consistent position) looks better. On the other hand, if emphasis
>>> marks are on the whole paragraph, and only one character has ruby, the
>>> latter might look better. Choosing either by auto-hide or not might be
>>> one possible option.
>>>
>>> [1] https://drafts.csswg.org/css-text-decor-3/#text-emphasis-position-property
>>
>> There was previous discussion on the positioning of emphasis marks
>> in the presence of ruby. See
>>     http://www.w3.org/mid/AEB4771C-8ED0-49DD-B444-34F2BE54F85F@w3.org
>>       continuing at https://www.w3.org/mid/4D277EC5.2050607@w3.org
>>     https://www.w3.org/mid/A592E245B36A8949BDB0A302B375FB4E201BF47330@MAILR001.mail.lan
>>     https://www.w3.org/mid/510C6999.9050000@inkedblade.net
>>
>> The conclusion was that the behavior illustrated in the spec is required,
>> which is why we did not illustrate both options. :) See
>>     https://www.w3.org/mid/5136E94C.9010605@inkedblade.net
>>
>> That said, I think auto-hidden ruby is a special case, and we should
>> probably spec Gecko's behavior for that.
>>
>> A related question is then, what about empty annotations? Should they
>> match the behavior of auto-hidden ruby or non-annotated text?
> 
> I agree that the Gecko's behavior is pretty good, and I think the emphasis mark
> position should be consistent within a ruby element (empty annotations should
> match the behavior of auto-hidden).
> 
> So both
>      <em>ああ<ruby><rb>振<rb>り<rb>仮<rb>名<rt>ふ<rt>り<rt>が<rt>な</ruby>ああ</em>
>      (auto-hidden ruby annotation for "り")
> and
>      <em>ああ<ruby><rb>振<rb>り<rb>仮<rb>名<rt>ふ<rt><rt>が<rt>な</ruby>ああ</em>
>      (empty ruby annotation for "り")
> should have the same result:
>   、、、、
> 、、ふ がな、、
> ああ振り仮名ああ
> 
> I think this behavior is reasonable for readability, and also because of the
> ruby layout structure (similar to the table structure, the cell position in
> a row should not change when a cell in the previous row is empty).

I have edited this into the spec as follows:

   # If emphasis marks are applied to characters
   # for which ruby is drawn in the same position as the emphasis mark,
   # the emphasis marks are placed outside the ruby.

Appending

   # This includes auto-hidden and empty ruby annotations.

Xidorn, please let me know if this works for you. :)

~fantasai
Received on Thursday, 19 October 2017 01:44:08 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Friday, 17 January 2020 22:53:02 UTC