W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > September 2015

Re: [css-writing-modes] computed value for text-orientation: sideways or sideways-right

From: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 21:44:37 -0400
To: 馬場孝夫 <baba@bpsinc.jp>, Florian Rivoal <florian@rivoal.net>
Cc: Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gmail.com>, Gérard Talbot <www-style@gtalbot.org>, Jonathan Kew <jfkthame@gmail.com>, W3C www-style mailing list <www-style@w3.org>
Message-ID: <55FCBE05.5090908@inkedblade.net>
On 09/18/2015 09:31 PM, 馬場孝夫 wrote:
>
> However, personally I can not really agree to those new writing-mode values.
>
> Everything which is become possible by 'writing-mode: sideways-lr/rl' is also
> able by 'writing-mode: vertical-lr/rl' + 'text-orientation:
> sideways-right/left'.
>
> If we reintroduce 'text-orientation: sideways-left' in future, those new
> writing-mode values are no longer needed.
>
> In my opinion 'writing-mode: sideways-lr' is not really needed just now
> because it can be roughly replaced with 'transform: rotate'; therefore,
> 'writing-mode: sideways-lr/rl' should be dropped.

CSS is a world-wide technology. Therefore it needs to accommodate
the typesetting requirements of the whole world, not just of Japan
and China. Vertical text is used in many other writing systems:
it is commonly used for captions on the side of figures and tables,
and for table column headings.

Transforming text does not work because it does not allow for
correct layout of the text, such that the element is sized to
fit its text and the surrounding content makes exactly enough
room to fit the element.

Transforming text also does not work because certain effects
that rely on a true coordinate system will not work correctly.
For example, OS-styled buttons will be shadowed incorrectly
if rotated 90deg.

I know you are anxious for the features that Japan requires to
be completed. However, this working group is not working only
for Japan, and we must reasonably accommodate the rest of the
world as well.

I also would not worry too much about these new keywords--
compared to the rest of the work of making vertical text happen,
they are not so difficult--particularly sideways-rl, which has
the same effect as 'writing-mode: vertical-rl; text-orientation:
sideways'.

> Do you mean that the values should be arranged like below?
>
> - 'sideways-right': [dropped]
> - 'sideways-left': [dropped]
> - 'sideways': rotate clockwise
> - new value such as 'sideways-reverse': rotate counter-clockwise [future level]

Yes, I believe this is what was meant.

> If this my understanding is true, it seems to be consistent.
> However, since I think auto-switching mechanism is still needed as I wrote in
> above, I feel the original keywords look better.

I understand the desire for symmetry, and I'm not opposed.

I think I would like to investigate the backwards-compat impact
of switching to 'text-orientation: sideways-rl' and dropping
the other keywords, since that would be a little easier to type,
but also clearer and more consistent with the corresponding
writing-mode' keywords... what is your opinion on that, if it
is feasible?

~fantasai
Received on Saturday, 19 September 2015 01:45:15 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Friday, 25 March 2022 10:08:57 UTC