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Re: 16px shipped default for all NOT true (was: Why not max/min-font...)

From: Kseso? <kseso9@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 12:29:55 +0200
Message-ID: <CAAQ7Nj4T0vwnZnOJNb8eUrxVvETMH8h1LPTQJ78mtZiOxGj5=A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net>
Cc: www-style list <www-style@w3.org>
With apologies ...
Maybe it's my ignorance of this list but:
What does the primal proposal (max / min-font-size) with everything else
that has gone out in this thread?
And the colophon in the last mail: it was already changed even the
Thanks but no.

Why donĀ“t you open another thread for those issues that have nothing to do
with this?


2014-06-30 6:33 GMT+02:00 Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net>:

> On 2014-06-29 09:09 (GMT-0700) Tab Atkins Jr. composed:
>  Felix Miata wrote:
>  On 2014-06-26 23:33 (GMT-0700) Bruno Racineux composed:
>  The Normal/Medium size is always 16px by default for all browsers.
>  1-It isn't and never has been[1] true.
>  It is true
> You and others keep saying so, but without proffering proof to contradict
> my proofs to the contrary.
> #1 Always means always, not 97.9% or 99.7% of the time.
> #2 If you're somehow trying to inject the CSS reference pixel into the
> discussion there needs to be some concurrent reconciliation between it and
> tools at the disposal of CSS users and others who recognize the variable
> disparity between the specification, and units used and measurable with web
> tools. Assessing the size of anything in reference pixels requires tools
> not at ready disposal to most people who might even in theory realize any
> benefit from their use.
> #3 Not true for IE6 (nominal 12pt default dependent on display density,
> real or assumed, for px size):
> http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/W3/ie6-sans120.png (20px @120DPI)
> http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/W3/ie6-sans120b.png "
> http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/W3/ie6-sans144.png (24px @144DPI)
> http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/W3/ie6-sans144b.png "
> #4 Is not and (AFAICT) never has been true with KHTML (nominal 12pt
> default dependent on display density, real or assumed, for px size):
> http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/W3/konq3-sans120.png (20px @120DPI)
> http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/W3/konq3-sans144.png "
> http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/W3/konq4-sans120.png (24px @144DPI)
> http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/W3/konq4-sans144.png "
> And before you remind me how small a presence KHTML has on the web, I'll
> remind you:
> 1-KHTML is that from whence came WebKit, and through WebKit, Blink, and is
> neither dead nor useless, getting backported selected changes from the
> forking.
> 2-KHTML is the only current capability to display as intended web pages
> created under CSS2 and prior, when absolute units could correspond to their
> namesakes' physical units precisely, without using a non-current browser,
> the same dimensional accuracy now as they could with browsers available at
> the time of their creation. For some pages, and some users, this
> capability, now expunged from CSS specifications, is crucial.
> (Such pages can be modestly restyled to continue working exactly as in the
> past with KHTML, and also with the Geckos, but not with any browser running
> on current or recent Blink, Trident or WebKit.)
> #5 Camino's shipped default before its demise IIRC was 14px, same as
> Epiphany and some other now defunct Mozilla/Gecko browsers, and possibly
> same as some same that are recent or current. SeaMonkey is not the only
> Mozilla/Gecko besides Firefox. http://geckoisgecko.org/
>  but you shouldn't make any strong assumptions off of it
> Absolutely!
>  every browser makes it fairly easy for users to change their default
> Debateable. The fact that pages like https://support.google.com/
> chrome/answer/96810?hl=en&ref_topic=3434353 and http://www.bbc.co.uk/
> accessibility/guides/change_fonts/browser/win/firefox3/ exist to help
> users figure it out, coupled with the sub-optimal text size and contrast
> obstacles that it and similar pages present to users, plus the common
> confusion between defaults and zoom, makes me think quite the contrary.
> Also, degree of difficulty ignores the issues that: a-typical author
> styling makes changing it is almost pointless, and b-some browsers limit
> delta from shipped to + or - 50% nominal. All in all it can confuse all but
> extremely astute and knowledgable users.
> --
> "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
> words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
>  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
> Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
Received on Monday, 30 June 2014 10:30:22 UTC

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