W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > June 2014

Re: Why not max/min-font-size? & extend them to other properties of sizes

From: Alan Gresley <alan@css-class.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 17:52:42 +1000
Message-ID: <53AD22CA.1050002@css-class.com>
To: Bruno Racineux <bruno@hexanet.net>, "Tab Atkins Jr." <jackalmage@gmail.com>, Gérard Talbot <www-style@gtalbot.org>
CC: Kseso? <kseso9@gmail.com>, www-style list <www-style@w3.org>
On 27/06/2014 4:33 PM, Bruno Racineux wrote:
>> Can you explain to me what text-zoom is?
> Sorry if wasn't clear. It's the 'Zoom Text Only' browser feature under
> View > Zoom
> available on Safari, IE and Firefox which you can use with the zoom/+-
> shortcuts. Chrome/Blink doesn't have it, except for fairly poor and
> unreliable chrome extension hacks modifying the DOM on the fly after
> DOMContentloaded to try and do that task.

Ok, I now know how to access the traditional Firefox menus after finding 
this page [1] since I knew what to search for. I never knew of the 'Zoom 
Text Only' feature. I still can't find the 'Zoom Text Only' feature in 
IE. I do use Windows.

>>> Case: When you use an arbitrary text-only zoom on desktop, all fonts can
>>> get bigger, completely messing up with the layout integrity of
>>> pixel-perfect logos, headers, menu etc.
>> Is this the failure of text-only zoom or pixel perfect layouts
> It depends on your take on what 'Zoom Text Only' is for.
> I would expect 'Zoom Text Only' to not scale any text set in px or pt,
> falling in line with the default font size setting behavior.

I see no reason why it should not zoom text regardless of if there is 
text set in px or pt. I not sure if you mean set by the browser or set 
by a style sheet. Upon briefly testing it, I find that it changes the 
height of elements with height set to 'auto'.

> 'Zoom Text Only' seems mostly meant to zoom in on the "<main>" content as
> opposed to every piece of text on the page. The convention being that text
> set in px or pt is not altered. Either I can file a bug on 'Zoom Text
> Only' to try and change how the feature works, or
> 'max-font-size/min-font-size' can address this at the author level.

Can you provide a link to a page where it only effects the "<main>" 
content since I am failing to see any adverse effects apart from if an 
element is given a height in pixels (e.g the Facebook blue bar).

.hasSmurfbar #blueBarHolder #blueBar {
     height: 42px;

>> Have you see this setting in Chrome (it's hidden well).
>> chrome://settings/fonts
> Not really hidden, it's under 'Web Content'. But that one only covers the
> default font. The 'Zoom Text Only' scale is applied on top of this setting.


>>> For example, if I use 'body { font-size: 100% }' and all other fonts in
>>> scalable percentages or ems, I can lock a specific container to a 16px
>>> base even if the fonts in children elements are in %. So if the user
>>> has a
>>> default font size of 18px, all my fonts scale upon the user default,
>>> except for particular area deemed negatively affecting the layout.
>> What happens when someone has a minimum font size setting?
> A minimum font size setting higher than author specified overrides all
> fonts, even if set in px or pt.

Agree but using pt is very unwise for not paged media since you can not 
know someone DPI setting [2].

>> Not everyone relies on a default font-size.
> Everyone does, unless changed. The Normal/Medium size is always 16px by
> default for all browsers. Then a given scale along the lines of Very
> Small, Small, Large etc. all map to pixel sizes in the range of
> [8,12,13,18,20,23,24,28,32]
> -Bruno

I believe the problem is not with 'Zoom Text Only' but rather layouts 
that have a height set in pixels. If you view my CSS Class site (see 
below), 'Zoom Text Only' does not break the site unless you hit 'Zoom 
Text Only' five times or have a minimum font size of 26px.

I am still wondering what issue you have with max/min-font-size. I 
myself do have issue since again I see it as an attempt to force 
something onto users by authors who to not cater for all users. That's 
why normal zoom became a standard among browsers.

2. http://css-class.com/test/css/box/pixels-points-dpi.htm

Alan Gresley
Received on Friday, 27 June 2014 07:53:04 UTC

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