W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > January 2014

Re: CSS Regions considered harmful

From: Alan Gresley <alan@css-class.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 00:01:35 +1100
Message-ID: <52E112AF.7030108@css-class.com>
To: Daniel Glazman <daniel.glazman@disruptive-innovations.com>, www-style@w3.org
On 23/01/2014 7:54 PM, Daniel Glazman wrote:
> On 23/01/2014 00:20, Håkon Wium Lie wrote:
>
>>   > >You don't read enough magazines.  Flowing text from one shape to
>>   > >another is another other major use-case.
>>
>> I see them. That doens't automatically make them really good use
>> cases. Also by adding ways to select and style individual columns,
>> these designs can be achieved.
>
> I don't what how you can measure if a use case is a "good
> use case" or not when it comes from the real world of printed
> material. It exists, represents users' request. We're not asked
> to judge it, we're asked to deal with it.
>
> Anyway. You two are not discussing the same thing here. One
> says "shape" and the other says "column". These are different
> beasts, with a non-null intersection, but still. They don't serve
> the same purpose and are different. Alan and I, during our
> printed material research on both regions and shapes, found
> existing layouts in the press or books that would be hacky if
> expressed in terms of columns. This was said multiple times in
> the past IIRC.

Printed media tends to have text, font and layout that is the same size. 
Web content though can be of any size. It can be the size of  display 
devices that are in sport stadiums. As an author, I code for those who 
set their minimum font-size at 30px at the extreme end of the scale.

> Now speaking of "harm", I think I will stick to Eric Meyer's
> interpretation of it [1]. For me, trying to put 25 years of DTP
> habits into columns _only_ instead of trying to match what that
> industry has been successfully delivering for decades is also A
> Bad Thing. And I am quite sure the DTP industry and the
> users of DTP software feel the same...

Does DTP often use WYSIWYG software?

> About "the separation of style from structure", my own feeling is
> that this 25 years old idealistic view of our tech world is not
> valid any more, we have binding properties attaching a shadow DOM
> to an element through CSS and nobody screams at it. We have
> structural attributes that trigger styles in vectorial graphics
> and nobody screams at it. We have stuff in CSS to base stylistic
> rules on attributes and even content and nobody screams at it. We start
> seeing proposals to reorder structure from CSS-like rules, à la STTS,
> and nobody asks "if" such rules will be merged some day with CSS but
> only "when".
>
> I'm not saying that "the separation of style from structure" is
> not ideal. It is. I'm saying reality is - and has always been -
> more complex than that.
>
>
> [1] http://meyerweb.com/eric/comment/chech.html
>
> </Daniel>


Alan


-- 
Alan Gresley
http://css-3d.org/
http://css-class.com/
Received on Thursday, 23 January 2014 13:02:05 UTC

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