W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > April 2013

[css4-pseudo] The need for more powerful pseudo elements

From: Tom Wardrop <tom@tomwardrop.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 21:06:31 +1000
Message-ID: <CAOvmfagJDi8F0No5JOUSMUzO342BCco=RGLdkc=A3PGLcLj2EA@mail.gmail.com>
To: www-style@w3.org
What I wish to propose is to further extend the concept that ::before and
::after pseudo elements introduced. I'd like to see these extended into a
simple but comprehensive suite of tools for amending the visual markup of a
document. I believe CSS should allow developers to generate arbitrarily
complex trees of pseudo-elements to allow CSS to be able to (as much as
possible) fully negate the need for style-only markup within the source
HTML document. As others have suggested, adding a <span> or <div> to your
document for the sole purpose of using it as a CSS hook is almost as bad as
using <font>.

I shouldn't have to point out the current limitations of ::before and
::after, nor the obvious use cases (any example of style-only markup that
can't be replaced with pure CSS is a valid use case). The comments
associated with this article provide some good examples:

In a nutshell, here's what I propose:

* Allow multiple ::before and ::after pseudo-elements per element. I know
[css4-pseudo] already covers this. The same is assumed to be applied to the
new elements suggested in the next few points.
* Introduce ::around (or ::outside) pseudo-element to wrap a pseudo-element
around another element (normal element, or pseudo element). The content
attribute would be ignored for this element as it's ambiguous, and doesn't
really make sense anyway.
* Introduce ::inside (or ::within) pseudo-element for generating new
pseudo-elements that wrap the children of another element, or to otherwise
just create a new empty child pseudo-element. Perhaps in this case, the use
of the content property could be conditional; ignore if pseudo-element
wraps existing children, or respect if the new pseudo-element will
otherwise be empty.

The implementation should allow for arbitrarily complex trees of visual
markup, e.g.

#container::inside {
  content: 'world';
#container::inside(1)::before {
  content: 'hello';
#container::inside(1)::after {
  content: '!';
#container::inside(1)::after(1)::inside {
  content: '?'; /* Ignored */
  background: red;

The above would generate this tree of pseudo-elements:

<div id="container">
    <pseudo style="color: red;">!</pseudo>

I hope that at least gives clear indication of the desired outcome. The
actual implementation and syntax is obviously up for change. I strongly
believe there needs to be more comprehensive support for pseudo-elements in
CSS, to allow markup to become entirely semantic as it should be, leaving
span and div only to logically group related text and elements that cannot
otherwise be grouped by some more semantic element, hopefully eliminating
the use of span and div purely as CSS hooks.

I'm eagerly awaiting feedback. If there's some consensus that this is a
good idea, then we can hopefully fine tune some of the implementation

Received on Sunday, 28 April 2013 11:06:59 UTC

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