- From: Boris Zbarsky <bzbarsky@MIT.EDU>
- Date: Sun, 06 May 2012 14:47:49 -0400
- To: "Tab Atkins Jr." <jackalmage@gmail.com>
- CC: Florian Rivoal <florianr@opera.com>, "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>
On 5/6/12 9:21 AM, Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: > Tantek's proposal, which he brought to the group late in the last > Paris FtF, hits approximately the same sweet spot but with less > ambiguity - it's nearly a mechanical process. As a reminder, his > proposal is that, at the moment anyone can prove two interop > implementations of a feature with a WG-approved testsuite, we cut that > feature into an LC->CR draft. I assume the idea is that a "basic" test suite would be used for this, and then a "full" test suite would be used to exit the CR? Or at least that this is how it would work in practice, since that's the way the incentives work out? If so, I'd probably be fine with this approach. If we demand the level of test suite rigor we should be demanding for exiting CR out of an "enter CR" test suite, we might never enter CR (e.g. I don't believe any of gradients, transitions, transforms, would have two interop implementations on anything resembling a test suite that tries for good coverage). > This is approximately what our process is *already* supposed to be, The current process for _entering_ CR does not involve interoperable implementations already existing.... As a general point, I believe the right way to think about anything we do here is in terms of incentives. For example, the current setup, if we ignore altruistic and strategic considerations, mostly incentivizes UA vendors who want to get ahead in the market to implement behind a prefix, advertise their prefixed version to developers, and not push too hard for standardization or to actively block it. It incentivizes UA vendors who want to counter such moves to try to push specs to CR faster. Tantek's proposed setup incentivizes vendors who want get ahead in the market to implement prefixed, advertise the prefixed property, and contribute as many tests as they can to the pre-CR test suite to delay CR entry and hence unprefixing. It incentivizes those who want to counter such moves to push for entry to CR with a smaller test suite (and in particular to do most of their test contribution after entry into CR). This is definitely an improvement, though it still leaves the strong incentive to implement prefixed and then get developers to use the prefixed property. My proposal earlier in this thread that prefixed properties not ship in final releases incentivizes UAs to not follow it. If followed, it incentivizes UAs who want to get the functionality out to developers to push for a faster CR so they can actually ship the functionality, while making the job of those who want to keep the functionality of the web completely so it won't compete as well with proprietary stacks easier: they just need to block entry into CR. This may be an untenable failure mode. Maciej's proposal differs from Tantek's in the fact that the "roughly", by its very fuzziness, takes away the "write lots of tests for edge cases" strategy as a viable approach to delaying unprefixing. On the one hand that means no UA vendor has an incentive to write such tests. On the other hand, it also means that there is slightly less incentive for a vendor to implement prefixed and advertise it, because others can clone the property and push the spec to CR without the vendor in question being able to block it, except insofar as they can affect the decision about whether implementations have "rough interoperability". Can we do better than Tantek's or Maciej's proposal from an incentive point of view? I'm not sure we can. Maybe we should start with the incentives we actually want and reason back to the actual process that will produce them.... if there is one? -Boris
Received on Sunday, 6 May 2012 18:48:23 UTC