- From: John Daggett <jdaggett@mozilla.com>
- Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 22:14:47 -0700 (PDT)
- To: www-style list <www-style@w3.org>
The current draft of the CSS3 Writing Modes spec defines the values for the 'text-orientation' property based on the proposed vertical orientation properties in Unicode [1]. Specifically, 'mixed-right' is defined to be based on the mixed vertical orientation property value (MVO) and 'upright' is based on the stacked vertical orientation property value (SVO). This makes sense and I completely agree with this. However, in section 5.1.1 [2] the spec defines these in terms of variations on the proposed UTR50 versions of these properties, using the terms MVOsimple and SVOsimple. It links to a data file on csswg.org which contains values that are different from the current data file associated with Draft 5 of UTR50. Elika says these are edits that have already been generally agreed upon but have not yet been published in a UTR50 draft. I really, really, really don't like the idea of publishing our own variation of UTR50. Right now there's considerable discussion in Japan via twitter etc of UTR50 [3] and the role of MVO/SVO in vertical text layout. I think some of this discussion may just be misunderstanding about the intent and utility of UTR50 data but I think part of it may be valid criticism that leads to changes/restructuring of the data. I think we should let that discussion influence definition of UTR50 and not introduce more noise into an already noisy discussion. The proper place for discussion of these details is in the Unicode forum for UTR50, not on www-style. I realize that applications are being written that diverge in behavior [4] and that some sort of convergence is necessary for interoperability. But given the current state of the discussion I think the only way to draw matters to a conclusion is to wait for those with opposing views of UTR50 data to resolve their differences. Publishing a CSS version of the data will not aid resolution. It would be much better for this part of the spec to define the behavior of 'mixed-right' and 'upright' given the specific values of the MVO/SVO properties defined in UTR50 (i.e. R, T, Tr, Tu, U). The spec contains the wording below but in an informative note that doesn't fully explain how the logic is to be used: > These two properties are derived properties using the > pseudo-algorithm shown below: > > if ((HO = "L") and (VO = "U")) then > VOsimple := "R" > else if (VO in ["U", "T", "Tu", "Tr"]) then > VOsimple := "U" > else if (VO = "R") then > VOsimple := "R" > > from draft #5 of [UTR50] with a few changes that were discussed with > UTC. It is simpler to describe what is meant in words rather than in pseudo-code that reuses "R" and "U" to mean both "UTR property value" and "resulting vertical orientation" and introduces terms like HO and VO without defining them. Proposed replacement: For the 'mixed-right' and 'upright' property values, vertical orientation is defined in terms of the corresponding Unicode property value, MVO and SVO respectively. If the orientation value is "R" then the glyph is rotated right. If the orientation value is "U", "T", "Tu", or "Tr" then the glyph is displayed upright. The one exception is for scripts like Mongolian for which special handling is required for the stacked case due to the vertical-only nature of the underlying script. I think it might be better to omit reference to HO at this point, I'm not sure that property is going to pass full Unicode committee approval given that it's effectively defining a character property that represents the condition [script == Mongolian or Phags-pa]. John Daggett Mozilla Japan [1] UTR50 Unicode Properties for Horizontal and Vertical Text Layout http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr50/ [2] Vertical Orientations in CSS3 Writing Modes http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/csswg/raw-file/2b8015a52824/css3-writing-modes/Overview.html#vertical-orientations [3] Twitter discussion of UTR50 (in Japanese) - *lots* of posts! https://twitter.com/#!/search/realtime/%23utr50 http://togetter.com/li/251192 [4] Screenshots of default rendering of Latin text within vertical Japanese text in EPUB apps http://twitpic.com/a180ys
Received on Friday, 29 June 2012 05:15:15 UTC