- From: Mark Moore <mark.moore@notlimited.com>
- Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:14:30 -0700
- To: <www-style@w3.org>
- Cc: "'Emrah BASKAYA'" <emrahbaskaya@hesido.com>
I think Emrah's post speaks to a fundamental problem I'm beginning to see. There are really three distinct concepts that need to be separated, not two: Content, Layout, and Style. CSS crosses the boundary between Layout and Style and because it doesn't directly address Layout it does a very mediocre job. The example of needing to move a visual element from the bottom to the top is just one of many. The clue for me is whenever it's necessary to change the underlying XML/XHTML/HTML to yield the required rendering, and that change cannot be justified by the content alone. This is just as bad a conceptual breakdown as using tables for layout instead of tabular data, but is more difficult to recognize. And, so it's easy to overlook. > -----Original Message----- > From: www-style-request@w3.org [mailto:www-style-request@w3.org] On Behalf > Of Emrah BASKAYA > Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 3:00 PM > To: www-style@w3.org > Subject: Re: Parent pseudo-containers - a method for seperation of content > from design > > > > >> Many times, to design layouts, we depend on nested divs. The nesting is > >> not necessarily semantic, and is just to serve the layout. So this is > > > > It seems to me that you are straying out of the scope of CSS into the > > the scope of XSL. > > > > Thanks for noticing to say the least. > > I think the scope of CSS should be total seperation of content from > design. It is good to know I can change the blue background to green > anytime I want using CSS for the whole site, but when I want my navigation > bar displayed on the very top instead of the bottom in my liquid design > (just an example, I am not that imaginative), CSS gives me no way to do > this. > > We'll have relatively complex feature such as move-to which asks the > content to be placed later in the document, but I deem it only as a > half-hearted attempt of seperation of content from style, and same goes > for ::outside. If the browser can be asked with move-to to rearrange the > flow in CSS3 with a very bad limitation, why not create a method for a > total re-arranging with no limitations with a much simpler syntax that I > outlined, that will help authors convert their old and fixed designs into > liquid ones, and whatnot? > > To illustrate what I proposed for the ones who hadn't took their time to > read my long proposal: > With the method I describe, we could turn this: > +-----------+ > |A | > +-----------+ > |B | > | | > +-----------+ > |C | D | > +-----------+ > > into this: > +-----------+ > |A | D | > +-----------+ > |B | > | | > +-----------+ > |C | > +-----------+ > > Simply with CSS, and what's more, we would be able to apply this to *old > css2 styled pages with excess styling markup*. > > We could also turn this: > > +----------------------------------+ > |more important for visual browsers| > +----------------------------------+ > |some content | > +----------------------------------+ > |some more content | > +----------------------------------+ > |more important for aural browsers | > +----------------------------------+ > > Into > > +----------------------------------+ > |more important for aural browsers | > +----------------------------------+ > |some content | > +----------------------------------+ > |some more content | > +----------------------------------+ > |more important for visual browsers| > +----------------------------------+ > > only with CSS. > > I urge anyone who haven't read the full description at: > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2005Apr/0058.html > > > -- > Emrah BASKAYA > www.hesido.com
Received on Wednesday, 6 April 2005 22:19:41 UTC