- From: Jeremy Dunck <ralinon@hotmail.com>
- Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 16:16:08 -0600
- To: dbaron@fas.harvard.edu, shelby@coolpage.com
- Cc: www-style@w3.org, rayw@netscape.com
>From: "L. David Baron" <dbaron@fas.harvard.edu> >Subject: Re: XBL is (mostly) W3C redundant, and CSS is wrong W3C layer ><snip> >While it is a good idea to begin with general solutions when they might >be adequate rather than prematurely optimizing, I find it hard to >believe that retransforming an entire document and redoing the layout of >the entire result document (something that is already known to take a >few seconds or more for complex pages) for any DOM manipulation would >have acceptable performance for some of the more complex pages on the >web today. <snip> And on that note, one -could- argue that the DOM is redundant with XSLT. Or that XSL:FO is redundant with CSS. Or that XHTML is redundant with HTML. And so on. And they'd be somewhat right. I know you, Shelby, interpreted Daniel's remark "Hammers are too heavy to efficiently smash flies." as being snide, and I certainly think it could have been put less abrasively-- but the point is valid. The fact is that there's more than one way to skin any particular cat, and the varying ways to do it are better than others in certain situations. I happen to believe it would have been better to make XBL bindings using CSS-like selectors (and the cascade?) in separate instances, rather than mingling them in where they could be mistaken as CSS properties. I also believe that at some point, there must be glue to make all these orthogonal layers work. Witness the inclusion of an [stylesheet in XML]. Witness the dodged bullet of providing the [DOMImplementation] instance for client-side DOM usage. Yes, I do believe that W3C standards could be used to accomplish what XBL is doing-- but perhaps not so well. I am not knowledgable about XSLT, XBL, or DOM implementations to comment on that. I am not knowledgable on XEvents and XForms to comment on that. But I am also willing to believe that a group other than the W3C had a good idea. (That's not intended to be inflammatory...) Thanks for the constructive feedback, David. Shelby, you may not have fired the first shot, but humility in the face of arrogance is quite disarming. Daniel, I think you've provided some great insight into XBL. Before this thread, I knew of XBL, but but had never looked into it. While I may disagree with some of the specific implementation choices made, I think that XBL does provide a great value-- Standards are good, but there's a lot to be said for working code. So let's keep it constructive. Thanks for the learning experience, Jeremy Dunck [stylesheet in XML] http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-stylesheet/ [DOMImplementation] http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Core/core.html#ID-249F15BA _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf
Received on Friday, 27 December 2002 17:16:40 UTC