W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > August 2000

Re: UI WD (was Re: BeCSS)

From: Matthew Brealey <webmaster@richinstyle.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 12:58:04 +0100
Message-ID: <399A81CC.5F43@richinstyle.com>
To: Tantek Celik <tantek@cs.stanford.edu>
CC: www-style@w3.org
Tantek Celik wrote:
> > 2. For activatable elements, the :active period is not the same as the
> > CSS definition of :active in most UAs. For example, once buttons have
> > been 'pressed', they should have an outline. This persists until any
> > other part of the document is clicked on.
> The outline you are seeing is expressing :focus.

Yes. I was corrected a few months ago on this, because I didn't realise
you could active the buttons with space (duh).
> > 4. In addition, in the sample style sheet:
> >
> > input[type=checkbox][name],
> > input[type=radio][name]
> > {
> >  toggle-group: attr(name);
> > }
> >
> > is wrong: only radio buttons should have mutually exclusive toggling.
> Not true.  I have seen checkboxes used this way as well.

Possibly. But:

this is an HTML style sheet, and this doesn't work in HTML: therefore it
is absolutely wrong
in any case using checkboxes in that way is a bad idea and people who do
it should be ashamed of themselves

> > 5. Finally, I am pretty confident that group-reset is superfluous. The
> > toggle-group and group-reset properties are largely a restatement of the
> > rules for counters, where the counter-reset property certainly was
> > necessary (and possible).
> It is necessary for nested groups (which are possible, 

but are they desirable?

> > If the property does survive, I would suggest that something be done
> > about the following paragraph, which is almost incomprehensible:
> >
> > 'The self-nesting is based on the principle that every element that has
> > a 'group-reset' for a group X, creates a fresh group X, the scope of
> > which is the element, its preceding siblings, and all the descendants of
> > the element and its preceding siblings.'
> >
> > It appears to repeat itself: 'the scope ... is ... its preceding
> > siblings ... and its preceding siblings'. (The second reference should
> > be 'following siblings'.) The reading I have always taken of this (in
> > CSS2) is 'Counter-reset only affects sibling and descendant elements' (I
> > also don't think affecting 'preceding siblings' makes any sense, because
> > preceding siblings cannot be affected anyway; 'following siblings' is
> > the correct phrase), or even 'Counter-reset doesn't affect ancestor
> > elements'. Replacing this paragraph with one that is more clear and with
> > an example would be beneficial. Although incidentally I would be
> > interested what real-world example could be provided.
> The text was copied from the CSS-2 description for counter-reset, which, I
> didn't want to deviate from, to avoid implying any different functionality.

This paragraph hopefully won't survive into CSS3 so this isn't a major
concern; certainly it would be nice to have comprehensible text.
> > Frame margins
> > -------------
> > The "marginwidth" and "marginheight" attributes (equivalent to the CSS
> > 'padding' property) were originally intended to allow the author to use
> > HTML to specify frame margins. Now that CSS provides equivalent
> > functionality, these attributes should collapse with CSS margins. This
> > means that if CSS margins are specified, the rendered margin is equal to
> > the larger of the two: the CSS margin and that specified (or implied) on
> > "marginwidth" and "marginheight".'
> Or you can treat the CSS specified margin as overriding these presentational
> attributes, much as 'background-color' overrides 'BGCOLOR'.

The analogy is incorrect. In a frame there are effectively two margins:
that of the BODY, specified by the proprietary marginwidth/leftmargin,
etc. attributes (or BODY {margin), and that of the frame. Thus in
<iframe marginwidth=10> with inside <body marginwidth=10> gives a
horizontal margin of 20 pixels. The question is whether one should adopt
HTML's two-margin approach or else collapse or override them.

The two-margin approach is nice in that it allows one to keep a padding
inside a frame regardless of its content, but it is more of a pain to
have to keep track of two separate margins.

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Received on Wednesday, 16 August 2000 07:51:45 UTC

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