Re: Sun-Java and SMIL Animation

Hi Daniel (and the SMIL group),

I'm glad you like the new stuff; I'm hoping the article and the
new features in the framework make it even more useful to
Java programmers.

I'll stick to my original assertion about the SMIL spec's vagueness
over the keySplines assumptions.  It makes sense to me now that I've
worked through it, but I didn't find the language here:

> QUOTE: "The keyTimes values that define the associated segment are 
> the  
> Bezier "anchor points", and the keySplines values are the control  
> points."

very obvious in determining that the anchor points are
(0,0) and (1,1).  Nor did the short dereference to Foley, vanDam
help in figuring how to determine what we're actually trying
to calculate with keySplines.

I get it now.  But the point of the article is to help
educate people in how this stuff works, so I thought I'd help
them along in assumptions that I found unobvious when I 
was doing this....

There's no inherent connection between my timingframework project
and Batik; someone could certainly do the work if it's helpful
or merited.  My goal is more to provide timing/animation capabilities
for Java graphics/GUI developers, whereas Batik is focused
around SVG in particular.  I'll probably continue developing more
of the plumbing for this kind of stuff for Java, and hopefully people
can reuse the work as they see fit (for Batik or whatever).

One of the things I would like to see happen is for some of this
work to be folded into the Java core platform; one of my goals in
putting the code out there in the timingframework project is to let
it loose in the wild and to get usage and feedback to hone the
API and capabilities before deciding which parts to pull into core.
So I would encourage everyone to use the framework as you see
fit and let me know about suggestions you have for modifications
or future features.

Thanks for your interest!

Chet.


----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Weck <daniel.weck@free.fr>
Date: Saturday, March 18, 2006 7:43 am
Subject: Re: Sun-Java and SMIL Animation

> Hi all !
> 
> Chet Haase (from Sun Microsystems) just published a new technical  
> article about the Java TimingFramework they're working on:
> <http://today.java.net/pub/a/today/2006/03/16/time-again.html>
> 
> QUOTE: "Much of the Timing Framework supports the SMIL model of 
> timing;  
> understanding SMIL might help in understanding how to use the 
> Timing  
> Framework effectively."
> 
> QUOTE: "the SMIL spec had just what I needed: acceleration and  
> deceleration."
> 
> QUOTE: "...KeySplines (and KeyTimes/KeyValues, for that matter) in 
> the  
> timing framework were implemented specifically to be very 
> compatible  
> with SMIL. So, for example, the method of defining and calculating 
> 
> splines is the same for SMIL as it is for the timing framework..."
> 
> So far so good ! ;)
> 
> QUOTE: "...An important point to note: the SMIL spec assumes that 
> the  
> "anchor points" of each spline are (0, 0) and (1, 1); I found this 
> 
> crucial assumption poorly documented (read: completely skipped)..."
> 
> I was intrigued by this remark and I looked at the relevant parts 
> of  
> the SMIL spec:
> 
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/SMIL/animation.html#animationNS-OverviewSpline>
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/SMIL/animation.html#animationNS-
> SplineAnimDetails>
> It seems to me that it is all well-documented indeed:
> 
> QUOTE: "Each time value in the keyTimes  list is specified as a  
> floating point value between 0 and 1 (inclusive), representing a  
> proportional offset into the simple duration of the animation 
> element."
> QUOTE: "The keyTimes values that define the associated segment are 
> the  
> Bezier "anchor points", and the keySplines values are the control  
> points."
> 
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/SMIL/animation.html#adef-keyTimes>
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/SMIL/animation.html#adef-keySplines>
> 
> Graph illustrations are even provided to help visualize the principle:
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/SMIL/animation.html#animationNS- 
> InterpolationKeysplines>
> 
> ---> Chet, what makes you feel that the current SMIL specification 
> 
> lacks of clarity for that matter ?
> 
> And a final side-note: I see you got contributions from various 
> people  
> including Vincent Hardy <http://www.w3.org/People/VHardy/>. It's 
> nice  
> to see the W3C's philosophy well-represented ! ;)
> Any idea if SVG-Batik will include SMIL animation anytime soon ? 
> (Maybe  
> using your TimingFramework ?)
> 
> 
> Regards, Daniel WECK.
> 
> 
> On 10 Mar 2006, at 18:33, Chet Haase wrote:
> > Hi Daniel,
> >
> > Glad you found the current work interesting; I'm hoping the
> > next stage will be much more so.  I've completed some
> > pretty powerful features for the timingframework project and
> > an article on them; I'm just waiting for a publishing date
> > at the end of the month before I push the next rev of the
> > timingframework code to the project site.
> >
> > Specifically, the next version will have such features as
> > property setters, keyValues/keyTimes/keySplines, and acceleration/
> > deceleration.  All of these additions should make the timing
> > framework much more powerful as well as enabling easier
> > integration with SMIL concepts and capabilities.
> >
> > Thanks for the pointers and information; lots of good stuff
> > out there!
> >
> > Chet.
> >
> > Daniel Weck wrote:
> >> Hi Chet !
> >> -- Note for people reading this email from the mailing-lists: 
> Chet   
> >> Haase is an architect in the Java Client Group at Sun 
> Microsystems,  
> >> of  which one area of interest is timing and animation. --
> >> My name is Daniel Weck, I am a member of the W3C SYMM Working 
> Group:>> <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/>
> >> As you may already know, SYMM is responsible for SMIL  
> >> standardization,  of which the latest version is SMIL 2.1:
> >> <http://www.w3.org/TR/SMIL2/>
> >> First of all, congratulations for your work related to the Java 
> 
> >> "Timing  Framework". I always enjoy reading your articles and 
> the  
> >> ongoing  implementation effort is exiting:
> >> <http://today.java.net/pub/au/78>
> >> <http://weblogs.java.net/blog/chet/>
> >> <https://timingframework.dev.java.net/>
> >> I understand that there may be a possibility for the 
> implementation   
> >> work to be ultimately included in a future release of Sun's 
> JDK. I  
> >> also  read that the project's goal is to provide general SMIL 
> support  
> >> in the  long term.
> >> The W3C SYMM Working Group is always interested in hearing 
> about new   
> >> SMIL implementations, so please let me invite you to keep us 
> updated   
> >> via the public mailing-list:
> >> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-smil/>
> >> Also, I am sure you will find answers to your questions on the 
> SVG   
> >> Working Group's public mailing-list:
> >> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/>
> >> I gather that your current focus is on animations, so for your  
> 
> >> information here are some pointers to documents published by 
> the W3C:
> >> - Animation module in the current SMIL recommendation:
> >> <http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/REC-SMIL2-20051213/animation.html>
> >> - Separate W3C recommendation specifically for SMIL-animation:
> >> <http://www.w3.org/TR/smil-animation/>
> >> - SVG 1.1 Animation:
> >> <http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/animate.html>
> >> - SVG 1.2 Tiny animation (working-draft, not yet an approved   
> >> recommendation):
> >> <http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/animate.html>
> >> There is an old working draft which includes an appendix 
> related to   
> >> Java-specific implementations of SMIL-DOM. Please note that 
> this has   
> >> been removed in the approved recommendation of SMIL 2.0:
> >> <http://www.w3.org/TR/smil-boston-dom/java-binding.html>
> >> Additionally, there are existing Java implementations of SMIL 
> timing   
> >> and synchronization, such as:
> >> - X-Smiles
> >> <http://www.x-smiles.org/xsmiles_smil.html>
> >> <http://www.xsmiles.org/xsmiles_features.html#smil>
> >> <http://www.xsmiles.org/xsmiles_features.html#timesheet>
> >> <http://www.x-smiles.org/javadoc/org/w3c/dom/smil20/package-  
> >> summary.html>
> >> - JGoodies Animations
> >> <http://jgoodies.com/freeware/animation/>
> >> Batik 1.6 does not support SMIL yet, but this is included in 
> the   
> >> roadmap for Batik 2.0. That's probably good place to contribute:
> >> <http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/batik/#BatikStatus>
> >> <http://www.ludicrum.org/plsWork/papers/BatikSMILsupport.htm>
> >> <http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/batik/javadoc/org/w3c/dom/smil/ 
> >> package- summary.html>
> >> I hope you'll find this useful,
> >> Kind regards,
> >> Daniel/
> >
> >
> 
>

Received on Saturday, 18 March 2006 17:27:38 UTC