- From: Arjun Ray <aray@nyct.net>
- Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:35:33 -0400 (EDT)
- To: <www-rdf-comments@w3.org>
On Sun, 7 Oct 2001, Graham Klyne wrote: > At 11:03 AM 10/7/01 -0400, Arjun Ray wrote: > >> ... In 'the graph has one node for each uriref, bNode or literal >> identifier', does 'for each' mean 'not all'? > Ah, I see what you mean. I'm not sure if that is an accurate > statement of what was intended, but assuming that it was... From The RDFMS Rec: : We can view a set of statements (members of Statements) as a : directed labeled graph: each resource and literal is a vertex I'd say it was an accurate statement of what was intended, modulo tactical shifts in terminology from one formulation to the next. > The fact that the uriref used to label an arc also has a > corresponding node in the graph doesn't mean that the node itself > *is* the arc. No one is claiming this; rather, the very absurdity of such a magical transmogrification is the basis of the question, what happened to the node for the term in the propertytype-oops-property-oops-predicate- oops-verb position in this triple? > I think the confusion here is caused by the existence of two > distinct syntaxes for RDF: > > - one is triple-based, in which the members of the triple are URIs > or literals or bNodes that denote RDF resources and/or literal > values, > > - one is graph based, in which the graph nodes and arcs are > defined independently of the urirefs or literals that may be used > to label them. That's the point: there is nothing but assertion to establish their equivalence, and as matters stand, the "graph-based" syntax *in the spec* is a bunch of baloney. That's not to say that a reconcilable graph-based syntax couldn't be devised - I'm practically certain it can - just that what the spec claims ain't it. (No matter how much the authors may have *wanted* it this way, that by itself can't make it so.) > Thus, assuming the quoted statement above to be exactly true, a > graph consisting of the single statement: > > My:Subject My:property My:Object . > > would contain three nodes and one arc thus: > > [My:Subject] --My:property--> [My:Object] > > [My:property] Actually, no. The single statement is A:Triple : My:Subject My:property My:Object . The graph would have three nodes [My:Subject], [My:property] and [My:Object] for the terms of the triple; the issue is representing A:Triple, the relation among them. The relation is positionally ordered in the sense that each slot has a distinct informative - I want to say "semantic" - role, which more than coincidentally you have adumbrated in your choice of labels - in other contexts this kind of conflative illustration might get called "persuasive definition" or "leading the witness";) One could draw a supernode around these three and label it [A:Triple] but that wouldn't be terribly graph-like. One could draw an arc between the node for the first slot of the triple and the node for the third slot of the triple - I am being long-winded deliberately in order to avoid implicit conflations - and then draw an arrow from the node for the second slot of the triple to that arc; while this wouldn't be terribly graph-like either, it would suggest that the "slot role" of each node has some bearing on the arc(s) we should be drawing for the triple that grouped the slot-correspondent nodes to begin with. Thus, one could have a fourth node for [A:Triple] and hook it up with the nodes for the slots with three separate arcs, the need to label which would rather naturally induce the use of symbols such as "Subject", "Object" and "property":) Now, this would be graph-like; I'm not convinced that it would damage the Model Theoretic formulation in the Working Draft; but it would put paid to some of the pretty pictures in the RDFMS spec. A minor embarrasment. > In this case, the [My:property] *node* has no arcs to or from. > The model theory assigns truth values to a graph purely in terms > of the arcs, Actually, no. It assigns truth values according to the IEXT mapping (from a subset of resources into a relational extension), and all of this is conducted using the lexicon of set theory. The words "node" and "arc" are not used at all in the formal definition of I, the interpretation. What is unclear in the draft, however, is the provenance of the 'E' in I(E) - the denotation rules canvass literals, urirefs *and*, lo and behold, triples analysed in terms of all three parts [cf the alternative graph I outlined.] Nowhere is it said (and nowhere does it seem necessary to say) that each element in IEXT "is" or "maps" to an "arc", let alone a single one. In fact, I'd say the closest picture would be the arrow-labelled quasi-graph I described earlier. > so the existence of an isolated node has no effect on the graph's > meaning; thus, its presence in the graph may be regarded as moot. I'm sorry, but this smacks of factitious retrofitting. Why, for instance, didn't the RDFMS spec make this face-saving point, given that Walton's comments were posted long before the spec reached Rec status? And what happens when the node ins't "isolated" (for a set of more than one triple? Where did the arc labels come from?) Arjun
Received on Sunday, 7 October 2001 20:33:43 UTC