- From: Graham Klyne <GK@ninebynine.org>
- Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 13:08:41 +0000
- To: tim finin <finin@cs.umbc.edu>
- Cc: www-rdf-calendar <www-rdf-calendar@w3.org>
At 11:11 AM 12/15/02 -0500, tim finin wrote:
> > So I might write something like:
> > ex:Host ex:access (1)
> > [ a ex:AccessPermission ;
> > ex:allowProtocol ex:HTTP ;
> > ex:allowProtocol ex:FTP ;
> > ex:allowProtocol ex:SSH ] .
> > which may be intended to mean that the host ex:Host is permitted to
> > use protocol HTTP _or_ FTP _or_ SSH.
> > ...
> > So now we may have this graph asserted to be true:
> > ex:Host ex:access (4)
> > [ a ex:AccessPermission ;
> > ex:allowProtocol ex:HTTP ] .
> > ex:HTTP a ex:AccessProtocol ;
> > ex:ipProtocol ex:TCP ;
> > ex:portNumber "80" .
> > Then, by the subgraph lemma, this is true:
> > ex:Host ex:access (5)
> > [ a ex:AccessPermission ;
> > ex:allowProtocol ex:HTTP ] .
> > ex:HTTP a ex:AccessProtocol ;
> > ex:ipProtocol ex:TCP .
> > But what does this mean? It would be tempting to say that by omitting
> > the port number that no port-number constraint is given. But clearly,
> > it is not true that by permitting use of HTTP that we mean to permit use
> > of all TCP protocols on all port numbers. So this new subgraph must be
> > interpreted as granting permission to nothing more than HTTP, and
> > probably less. Absent specification of a port number (which all TCP
> > protocols must use) I think it should mean that no permissions are granted.
>
>IMHO, (5) means that access is permitted by TCP but we can't say by
>which ports. ...
That's what I had been thinking, but the RDF model theory doesn't support
that view.
> ... I'm not sure, given the current RDF model theory if it
>implies that there exists *some* port through which TCP access is allowed.
To say that there exists *some* TCP port, something like this would be needed:
ex:SomeTCPProtocol a ex:AccessProtocol ;
ex:ipProtocol ex:TCP ;
ex:ipPortNumber [] .
(Which, if I'm not mistaken, would by virtue of the interpolation lemma be
entailed by:
ex:SomeTCPProtocol a ex:AccessProtocol ;
ex:ipProtocol ex:TCP ;
ex:ipPortNumber "80" .
> > (So, in this scheme, by expressing an access permission in RDF, under
> > open world assumptions, says nothing about what access is not
> > permitted; by saying that HTTP is permitted, we don't say whether or
> > not FTP is permitted. At some stage, to be useful, an access permission
> > description may need to be closed off, so that all access not explicitly
> > permitted is denied. This may involve mechanisms that go beyond basic
> > RDF core semantics.)
>
>I'm with you here. We definitely need some kind of default reasoning.
>The decision has been made, AFAIK, that this will not be in RDF or in
>OWL. If we need it, we will have to do it outside of RDF and OWL.
Yes, I think that's important, because having non-monotonicity all over RDF
would be a big problem: you'd never be able to rely upon the fundamental
RDF inferences because you don't know what new information may be coming.
> > What has confused me in all this is that it appears to muddle
> > conjunctive and disjunctive semantics semantics for RDF statements;
> > e.g. example (1) above meaning that permissions to use HTTP, FTP *or*
> > SSH, but example (3) describing a protocol for which the IP protocol is
> > TCP *and* the port number is 80. Considered from the point of view of
> > semantic interpretations, it's all conjunctive semantics, but that
> > hasn't prevented me from getting confused about the details at times.
>
>I'd say the *and* reading is right for (1). The host has an
>accessPermission _G0042. _G0042 has an allowProtocol http *and*
>_G0042 has an allowProtocol ftp *and* _G0042 has an allowProtocol ssh.
>
>I think the confusion is on the natural language side (which is
>probably closely related to our common sense reasoning). Most people
>would take the following two sentences to have the same meaning:
>
> My computer accepts http, ftp and ssh connections
> My computer accepts http, ftp or ssh connections
Yes, I think you're right about that. It's so easy to get confused. Doing
the natural language to formal language translation isn't always easy, I've
noticed.
#g
-------------------
Graham Klyne
<GK@NineByNine.org>
Received on Monday, 16 December 2002 08:11:04 UTC