Minutes: MathML Full Meeting 8 Feb, 2024

 Attendees:

   - Neil Soiffer
   - Louis Maher
   - David Carlisle
   - David Farmer
   - Murray Sargent
   - Deyan Ginev
   - Paul Libbrecht
   - Moritz Schubotz
   - Bruce Miller

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.7.0-rc1#cp-md-0-regrets>
Regrets

   - Patrick Ion
   - Cary Supalo

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.7.0-rc1#cp-md-0-agenda>
Agenda
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.7.0-rc1#cp-md-0-1-announcements-updates-progress-reports>1.
Announcements/Updates/Progress reports

NS did not get to push his changes to the core properties and concepts list
for this week.. He will do that after this meeting.

MuS: wants to give a demo of his current project when it is convenient for
the group.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.7.0-rc1#cp-md-0-2-a-href-https-w3c-github-io-mathml-docs-intent-core-concepts-core-concept-list-updates-a->2.
Core concept list updates
<https://w3c.github.io/mathml-docs/intent-core-concepts/>
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.7.0-rc1#cp-md-0-i-a-href-https-docs-google-com-spreadsheets-d-1eswou1k5nxbdlpvqapdoa9h-s8lg_qjn8fjh64g9izq-edit-gid-1358098730-deyan-39-s-original-spreadsheet-a->i.
Deyan's original spreadsheet
<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EsWou1K5nxBdLPvQapdoA9h-s8lg_qjn8fJH64g9izQ/edit#gid=1358098730>

(done)
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.7.0-rc1#cp-md-0-ii-a-href-https-docs-google-com-spreadsheets-d-1clpaiy9kx5k-67rg6rjsaxerdsb-_iymgzatkqjshvg-edit-gid-0-david-f-39-s-wish-list-a->ii.
David F's wish list
<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cLPaIy9kX5K-67RG6rjSAXErDSB-_iYmgZaTKQjShVg/edit#gid=0>

(done)
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.7.0-rc1#cp-md-0-iii-a-href-https-gist-github-com-dginev-825078ae316c32c312436f42061b3d05-deyan-39-s-physics-list-a-and-a-href-https-gist-github-com-dginev-ff7e6e090b79a0389fc2eff2b9961331-chemistry-list-a->iii.
Deyan's Physics list
<https://gist.github.com/dginev/825078ae316c32c312436f42061b3d05> and Chemistry
list <https://gist.github.com/dginev/ff7e6e090b79a0389fc2eff2b9961331>,

Biology List
<https://gist.github.com/dginev/d6367f53cb7b1fbed8abfa6bddd4f2c0>, Earth
Science and Engineering
<https://gist.github.com/dginev/cec6eb44f8c3fdffbffe546448049981> (finished
first part of physics list)

MuS: Physics units to add: electron volt, Angstrom, calorie, Rydberg

From Deyan Ginev to Everyone: 1,001 is both:

-EN: one thousand and one -Continental Europe: 1 point zero zero one
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.7.0-rc1#cp-md-0-chemistry>
Chemistry

Add maps-to bar arrow line 16

DC: Put it in the current infix list.

From Murray Sargent to Everyone: maps to is ↦

Add line 26 range

LM: a range concept which is not a separator.

ADD all the items under the "chemistry, physics" heading to issue 487: Non-math
intents <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/487>.

From Deyan Ginev to Everyone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrate

We discussed line 28 "triple-bonds". It was unclear if we would represent
this with three colons, or three vertical dots. We will need help from CS
on this.

DC: mentioned the name of another chemist we might consult.

*ACTION* DC will check his contacts to see if there is a chemist who can
help us with chemical symbol questions.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.7.0-rc1#cp-md-0-elements>
Elements

Add the "chemical element" property. Add all the elements under that
property.

DG: discussed a symbol that was a capital x. He did not know what that
symbol was about.

NS: There are many symbols which are abbreviations. We will need CS to help
us with their meanings, and to see if they should be included in our lists.

NS: Organic chemistry has some of these abbreviations.

NS: Some of these symbols are treated like chemical elements.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.7.0-rc1#cp-md-0-other-physical-constants>other
physical constants

DG: Constants are not units.

NS: It's maybe a property that something is a constant. Do we need to name
these like we named the integers and the rationales?

NS: Do we want to have a property? Do we want to try and name all the
constants?

DG: It might be difficult to know that "C" meant the speed of light.

PL: If we do chemistry and physics, we should do the constants as well.

DG: We have this nice little convenient note in one of the curation
documents that If something doesn't need special accessibility treatment,
you don't have to put it in core. You just speak it as it appears in print.

NS: You could run into a problem that if the first time you see "c" and
say, "speed of light" and after that every time you see "c" and say "c", a
blind reader may not know that "c" means the speed of light. You must first
say "c" "the speed of light" the first time you encounter "c".

From Moritz Schubotz to Everyone: Some statistics on uses in Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Physikerwelt

DG said that the triple-point of water needs an intent to be spoken
correctly.

DG said that perhaps you could treat it as a property. He does not know
because he is not a chemist.

DG said you could represent the triple point of water as cap t sub tr.

NS suggested that the three letters should be merged into one symbol.

Should physical constants be in core? They perhaps should be a property.

NS: Its hard for me to see the triple-point of water going into core.

DC said push it off because he does not think the triple-point should be in
core.

NS: We have the whole notion of physical constants, which probably should
be in core in some way, but I don't know which ones would be covered.

NS: They seem to be like a property.

MoS the list is currently too incomplete to do something reasonable with
it.

NS: Let us push this list into issue 487, the non-math intent list.

NS: We must think about this because it will come up in other fields.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.7.0-rc1#cp-md-0-properties>
properties

NS considered scientific notation. You should read it as is, 10 e 5 can be
read at 10 to the fifth power. "e" is not a concept or property in this
case.

NS: Chemistry makes a lot of changes to notational meaning. Tell the AT
that you are dealing with chemistry. Things have a property of a chemical
formula.

NS: MathCAT reads things in a different way once it knows that it is reding
chemistry.

NS: When you read chemistry you may not have to read any of the symbols.
For example, H2O.

stopping on line 2 of the properties.

NS: We will do chemistry at the next meeting.

NS: We will try to finish the lists off at the next meeting.

NS: Perhaps we will try to close some open issues.

PL: Are there other computer systems working on intent?

NS: Volker Sorge has Speech Rule Engine (SRE). He's not working on intent.
I don't know if he will pick it up. He was a bit negative about it at the
start.

MoS: It would be a tremendous effort to put intent in the SRE. We would
need some other pre-processing technology to map it.

NS: MathCAT should handle much of the Windows environment.

NS: The other big player is Apple. Once intent is complete, NS will ask
Apple to implement it. NS does not know what Apple will do when that
request is made.

MuS: I have written a speech engine and I have been incorporating a lot of
the intent into it. I don't have it all in there now, but I've got a bunch
in there and it is open source and so it's something we can play with, and
it gives a second intent implementation which we need.

NS will look to see if next week's meeting will interfere with the 5th
International Workshop on "Digitization and E-Inclusion in Mathematics and
Science 2024" meeting. If it does, NS will cancel next week's intent
meeting.
[Update: there is no time conflict]