Minutes: MathML Full Meetings 26 Oct, 2023

 Attendees:

   - Neil Soiffer
   - Louis Maher
   - David Carlisle
   - Dennis Müller
   - Deyan Ginev
   - Paul Libbrecht
   - Bruce Miller
   - Murray Sargent

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-agenda>
Agenda
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-1-announcements-updates-progress-reports>1.
Announcements/Updates/Progress reports

NS asked all members to complete their paperwork to rejoin the group.

PL: He wants to get his cut and paste working. So, if there would be people
interested in joining in this effort, PL would appreciate it.

PL: So going from a nice web page to Microsoft Word would be something that
I would really like to try from time to time.

PL: It could just be Wikipedia to Word.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-2-a-href-https-github-com-w3c-mathml-pull-477-intent-pr-about-arity-a->2.
Intent PR about arity <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/pull/477>

(max 10 minutes)

NS: Last week we said that we should add something to the spec saying that
arity is part of the concept match.

DG: So, I'm very happy with arity being part of the core matching
algorithm. My issue is with arity becoming somehow fundamental to intent
concepts that extends beyond core, and extending to the full spec.

DG: He did not want arity to be a critical feature in matching a speech
template.

DG: If you have just the string of the name of the concept, like power, and
no other information, it is still useful for 2 systems to talk to each
other.

DG: Arity is a nice concept for core, but arity should not be elevated to
the full spec.

NS: Power is in core. It has two arguments. If power was introduced with
five arguments, no one would know what to do with it.

PL did not want arity to stop people working outside of core.

NS: That is the core of the debate - is arity an implementation detail, or
a declarative spec requirement. Arity is as fundamental to a specific
instance in the core concept list as the name is. So, in one sense, yes
arity is part of a declarative spec requirement. But in another sense, it
is as much an implementation detail as the choice of name for a concept. To
try and be a bit more complete: the name, number of arguments, and any
properties are the signature of a concept. The core list specifies those
concepts that "everyone" should be able to count on to implement. But
"everyone" is free to use/implement other concepts, whether they vary from
core in name, number of arguments, or properties.

We then discussed the five-arity example:
intent="power:silent($1,_lifted,_to,*exponent*$2)"

This discussion will be continued online.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-3-a-href-https-w3c-github-io-mathml-docs-intent-core-concepts-core-concept-list-updates-a->3.
Core concept list updates
<https://w3c.github.io/mathml-docs/intent-core-concepts/>
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-a-created-core-concept-character-lists-default-fixity-properties-should-we-do-the-same-for-constants->a)
Created Core Concept character lists (Default Fixity properties). Should we
do the same for constants?
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-b-other-additions-to-the-list->b)
Other additions to the list?
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-ii-a-href-https-docs-google-com-spreadsheets-d-1eswou1k5nxbdlpvqapdoa9h-s8lg_qjn8fjh64g9izq-edit-gid-1358098730-deyan-39-s-original-spreadsheet-a->ii.
Deyan's original spreadsheet
<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EsWou1K5nxBdLPvQapdoA9h-s8lg_qjn8fJH64g9izQ/edit#gid=1358098730>

The following items should be tentatively added to the core concept list.

NS: We will review the list at some point with the aim of changing the
name, deleting the item, or further refining it in some way. Let's get all
the various lists looked and consolidated into one list.

Should array be in the core list. It is a synonym for matrix. Get rid of it.

   - time-separator
   - fences
   - number-of
   - list-separator
   - ellipsis
   - focus AKA highlight
   - ordinal-mark
   - range-separator
   - least-common-denominator (From Deyan Ginev to Everyone: example:
   https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/math/lcd.php)
   - day-period
   - line-segment
   - rate
   - shape
   - evaluates-to
   - point-at
   - radius
   - diameter
   - probability
   - change
   - distance
   - volume
   - maps-to
   - translates-to
   - ordered-pair
   - translation
   - rotation
   - reflection
   - such-that

Stopped at row 100.

NS: will update the core list with these additions.