Minutes: MathML full meeting 2 Nov, 2023

 Attendees:

   - Neil Soiffer
   - Louis Maher
   - Bert Bos
   - David Carlisle
   - Deyan Ginev
   - Bruce Miller
   - Paul Libbrecht
   - Cary Supalo
   - Murray Sargent
   - Patrick Ion
   - Moritz Schubotz

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-regrets>
Regrets

David Farmer
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-agenda>
Agenda
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-1-announcements-updates-progress-reports>1.
Announcements/Updates/Progress reports

*ACTION* NS told BBV that BK was looking for help moving the MathML core
working draft to CR. BB will follow-up with BK about this.

Reminder: Make sure your AC rep has appointed you and you have agreed to
the terms of joining the Math WG.

News (via DG) of outside happenings with math

DG writes: ( I'm writing in to share some math-related news from a couple
of days ago, as announced by Google:
https://blog.google/products/search/more-help-with-math-and-science-problems-in-search/

There are two separate updates:

   1.

   Better OCR recognition for equations and geometric shapes in Google Lens
   (and respective search results)
   2.

   More calculus and trigonometry support in the math solver for Google's
   main search bar
   - with an associated visual math palette editor (SVG-based)

An encouraging observation from this announcement is that all "final"
equation renderings for Google's math solver pages now appear to be using
Presentation MathML, for all supported browsers. )

DG also writes: ( I also wanted to share a new HCI (human-computer
interaction) project by the University of Pennsylvania. It attempts to
improve the ergonomics of writing CSS styling rules for math sub terms -
especially setting "color", which seems to be gaining prominence in recent
years.

As you'll notice, the project isn't MathML-centered, but tries to
amalgamate together LaTeX syntax and CSS syntax (with a transpiler step
that auto-generates a "class" attribute).

Talk video (recommended!): https://youtu.be/PkXHuPkatpk?t=566 Paper:
https://bit.ly/ffl-paper Demo: https://bit.ly/try-ffl

It is easy to be reminded of a post by Brian on this general subject (which
I also shared with the author): https://bkardell.com/blog/CSSLike.html )

CS: JAWS will not tell you about color by default.

NS: Someone sent Neil MathML, generated by ChatGPT, which MathCAT could not
recognize. The ChatGPT did some unusual things. Yet another source of not
good MathML... Another problem he found involves dealing with spaces.
Unicode has about fifteen kinds of spaces, and it is tedious to pattern
match against all these types of spaces.

There will be no meeting on Nov. 9, 2023.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-2-a-href-https-github-com-w3c-mathml-pull-477-intent-pr-about-arity-a->2.
Intent PR about arity <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/pull/477>

(max 5 minutes) Have we come to an agreement?

DG says No.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-3-a-href-https-w3c-github-io-mathml-docs-intent-core-concepts-core-concept-list-updates-a->3.
Core concept list updates
<https://w3c.github.io/mathml-docs/intent-core-concepts/>
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-i-a-href-https-docs-google-com-spreadsheets-d-1eswou1k5nxbdlpvqapdoa9h-s8lg_qjn8fjh64g9izq-edit-gid-1358098730-deyan-39-s-original-spreadsheet-a->i.
Deyan's original spreadsheet
<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EsWou1K5nxBdLPvQapdoA9h-s8lg_qjn8fJH64g9izQ/edit#gid=1358098730>

The following items should be tentatively added to the core concept list.

NS: We will review the list at some point with the aim of changing the
name, deleting the item, or further refining it in some way. Let's get all
the various lists looked and consolidated into one list.

We began today's considerations at line 100. The items for initial
inclusion into core are:

   - if and only if
   - annotation
   - braced-group
   - piecewise
   - defined-as
   - numbered-as (LM: I am not sure about this one.)
   - rad (units)
   - constraint
   - direction-of-approach?
   - congruent
   - length
   - ray
   - line
   - line-segment
   - arc
   - similarity
   - perpendicular
   - area
   - shape is a property
   - golden-ratio
   - continued-fraction (This might be a property.)
   - angular-description
   - angle measure

Stopped at line 150

DC: discussed advances in producing tagged pdf files.