Minutes: MathML Full meeting 22 Sept, 2022

 Attendees:

   - Neil Soiffer
   - Louis Maher
   - Bert Bos
   - David Carlisle
   - Cary Supalo
   - Sam Dooley
   - David Farmer
   - Deyan Ginev
   - Murray Sargent
   - Bruce Miller
   - Paul Libbrecht

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.1.0-04#cp-md-0-regrets>
Regrets

   - Steve Noble

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.1.0-04#cp-md-0-agenda>
Agenda
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.1.0-04#cp-md-0-1-announcements-updates-progress-reports>1.
Announcements/Updates/Progress reports

NS: At the TPAC chairs meeting, we were told people are not happy with
specs being out of date with the status of their projects(github editors
drafts). CSS was an example. The W3C wants the specs to be updated more
frequently to reflect their project status.

NS: We will have a vote at the core meeting on Monday, September 26, to
move core to a candidate recommendation.

NS: reported that BK said that the MathML implementation in Chromium has
not been shipped due to a printing issue. BK heard that the printing issue
would be corrected in version 109, but no guarantees. Chrome is at 105 and
chrome canary is at 108.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.1.0-04#cp-md-0-2-operator-dictionary-order-of-preference-for-forms-a-href-https-github-com-w3c-mathml-core-issues-167-167-a->2.
Operator dictionary: Order of preference for forms #167
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml-core/issues/167>

Resolved. DC: We agreed with Fred's solution.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.1.0-04#cp-md-0-3-unicode-15-update>3.
Unicode 15 update

DC: New characters were added. They were not all accessible.

DC: discussed his suggested changes. The HTML group disagreed, and DC
dropped the changes for now.

DC: will send the changes to BB who will look up the quickest way to
release the changes.

From David Carlisle to Everyone: https://w3c.github.io/xml-entities/

*ACTION* BB: look up the best process to update the Rec. Due Sep 29.

*Resolved* moving the entities editors draft to a recommendation.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.1.0-04#cp-md-0-4-media-types>4.
Media Types

PL: discussed issues with copy and paste and what he learned at TPAC. He
supports a system that allows web content to be copied to the clipboard,
and the receiving application will sanitize the content before adding it to
the receiving document.

*ACTION* NS: PL should open an issue on this for Moritz.

PL: This is a pull request. It is Implemented in chromium (hence Chrome and
Edge). It is not implemented in Safari or Firefox.

MUS: will look at this.

MUS: One step in the sanitation process is to identify the type of
information being received. MUS suggested first testing for MathML before
testing for other types of content.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.1.0-04#cp-md-0-5-intent-should-prefer-reference-over-repeating-a-literal-a-href-https-github-com-w3c-mathml-issues-422-422-a->5.
Intent should prefer reference over repeating a literal #422
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/422>

DF: It is better to reference something than to repeat the value.

DC: In the example under discussion, "x-prime" is a stand-alone variable
like "y". It does not mean the derivative of "x".

BM: In this case, "x-prime" has no relation to 'x'.

DG: We need more examples with underscores. If you want something to be a
unit, dashes are fine. you could use an underscore to tell the AT that this
is two speech entities.

NS: The examples need some work. Use DG's ideas when you can say when the
two types (dashes or underscores) should be used.

*ACTION* DG: has agreed to update the spec.

DC: Let us put the examples in the spec; and, if there are too many cases,
we will put them in notes.

PL: is working on a survey to see how math is spoken in different
languages. This was suggested by the internationalization WG. He wants this
survey to guide the "intent" implementation.

*ACTION* PL: If people know modern ways to make surveys, please give PL
this information.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.1.0-04#cp-md-0-6-dg-discuss-quot-subject-area-quot-by-example>6.
DG: discuss "subject area" by example

DG: Eight different subject areas were used in a proof presented at this
year's CICM conference.

DG: How do you make a proof accessible using many subject areas? How can
you annotate this for accessibility?

NS: would need to see the proof before he could suggest how it could be
spoken.

DG: Indeed maybe half of the complexity is just in the text. But the other
half would be in math notations.

DG: Integrals would be spoken differently depending on the subject where
the integral was used. The standard integral sign might be used in all
cases; therefore, AT may need to guess what kind of integral it was based
upon the subject.

DG: In higher math, various domains are combined. The intersection of
subject areas may be hard to predict as a user experience for "intent
defaults". The "@isa" approach may be a better fit.

DG: will discuss this in more detail next week.

DG: The preprint of the paper I talked about is available at (
https://arxiv.org/abs/2207.12742)

DG: I have also made available a screenshot of the slide I showed from
Sebastien's talk at:
https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/348975/191818704-7ede84ac-2a54-4d64-958c-66e5f0c4dea3.png