Minutes: MathML Full Meeting, 23 July, 2022

 Attendees:

   - Louis Maher
   - Neil Soiffer
   - Deyan Ginev
   - Murray Sargent
   - Paul Libbrecht
   - Patrick Ion
   - Sam Dooley
   - Cary Supalo
   - Bruce Miller
   - Moritz Schubotz
   - Brian Kardell
   - Stephen Noble

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.0.0-03#cp-md-0-regrets>
Regrets

   - David Carlisle

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.0.0-03#cp-md-0-1-announcements-updates-progress-reports>1.
Announcements/Updates/Progress reports

Fred submitted an intent to submit:

   - Intent to ship:
   https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/n4zf_3FWmAA
   - Igalia announcement:
   https://www.igalia.com/2022/06/22/Intent-to-Ship-MathML.html
   NS It may take ~3 months for Google to ship a version of Chrome with
   MathML turned on; Edge will likely follow shortly after that.

a) reminder about videos

NS: will submit one, and Igalia will also submit one.

DG: may try.

PL: will have a video on the clipboard. He would like to see written
instructions on making the videos.

b) maction and MathJax

PL: No one responded to his request to see if maction had any users. It is
supported in MathJax.

NS: We will not deprecate maction because core supports it. We will remove
the listing of the names that maction supports. Anyone can use any name,
but that name may not work across platforms.

c) accessibility appendix

SN has written some text for the accessibility appendix. He will send the
material to NS and DC.

CS: announced the 2022 ISLAND conference: ISLAND – Inclusion in Science
Learning a New Direction, a conference on disability and STEM (
https://islandconference.org/). The conference will be held on September 16
and 17, 2022. He is looking for abstracts. The official abstract submission
deadline is July 1, 2022, but CS can use later submissions.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.0.0-03#cp-md-0-2-a-href-https-github-com-w3c-mathml-issues-text-potential-20presentation-20mathml-20items-20to-20deprecate-20in-20mathml-204-potential-presentation-mathml-items-to-deprecate-in-mathml-4-a->2.
Potential presentation MathML items to deprecate in MathML 4
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues#:~:text=Potential%20presentation%20MathML%20items%20to%20deprecate%20in%20MathML%204>

Consensus: Deprecate linebreak because this can be handled by polyfills.

malign Mark maligngroup MUS: This functionality is in Office Math. Office
Math is more general than MathML.

NS: We needed a way to line up equations. Tables can be used for this
purpose. Intent can help this not look like a table for AT. It is difficult
to use tables in Office Math.

NS suggested that MUS look at sections 3.5.5.8 in the spec as an example.

NS: This topic is tabled.

maction will not be deprecated.

NS: menclose is redundant with other things.

Consensus: We will remove the radical (square root) sign and long division
sign from menclose because the elementary math implementation already
handles these cases.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.0.0-03#cp-md-0-3-resolve-close-some-intent-issues>3.
Resolve/close some intent issues

a) Relative paths <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/252> -- resolved?

NS: The current intent grammar does not support numbered locations. You
must name the arguments.

NS: We can add them back if necessary. We are not putting it into the spec.

b) intent grammar -- should allow '.12' as a number
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/376>

WE had a discussion on how to write numbers using intent. Can the number
have leading or trailing decimal points? How do you read and write
scientific notation? The answers to some test questions may be determined
by how a number is read.

DG: It is convenient to have many ways to write the same number.

DG: Do not introduce the various number variants until you need them in
real-world cases.

NS: tested his AT's response to reading (0.12) and (.12). the AT read all
the digits that were present.

BM: Do we want to put every possibility into the grammar?

NS: Yes.

BM: It is more trouble to take it out rather than leave it in.

BM: is not concerned with leading digits. What do we do for repeating
decimals or fractions?

BM: Should scientific notation be in the intent grammar? He says there
should be a limit.

DG: Do we need numbers at all? BM: yes.

PL: How do you pronounce a bar to show repeating numbers?

DG: How do we work with arialabel? Aria can go to a Braille display.

NS: says math should not use arialabel.

NS Arialabel should not affect Braille. Aria is ignored in the MathML spec.
The aria spec should say this.

NS Intent does not affect Braille. It is for speech only.

NS: Braille is presentational, what is Brailled is the Braille translation
of exactly what is on the page.

BM: We should allow a quoted string in intent. NS does not want to disagree.

NS: We need a real example before we implement quoted strings.

DG: Do not talk about intent = .12 and intent = 0.12 until we find a case
that matters.

Consensus: leave the grammar for numeric literals as is.

*ACTION* NS: asked people to send him issues that need to be closed. NS:
wwill put these issues in our meeting agenda for discussion.

NS: is almost done with chapter 3.

*ACTION* NS: asks that we look at SN's accessibility appendix.