Re: MathML Core authoring tools?

Hi David,

Just a quick comment you may find underwhelming - "absolute value" is not a
MathML Core construct in any sense, so the file I had in mind wouldn't test
that.
A file testing "intent" would, but that's (for the current discussion) a
separate topic.

I think the relevant TeX test for MathML Core would be:

 \left| A \right|

where we'd like to generate the layout-oriented:

<mo fence="true">|</mo>
<mi>A</mi>
<mo fence="true">|</mo>

Another related comment is that such a test file wouldn't target the
"canonically correct" MathML Core tree, but rather "one of the many
possible" MathML Core trees - as there is a lot of room for advanced
customization in styling, as well as element scaffolding (e.g. the
granularity of wrapping <mrow> elements).

Greetings,
Deyan

On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 1:01 PM David W. Farmer <farmer@aimath.org> wrote:

>
> It is a good idea to have a LaTeX file that tests MathML core.
> It will also serve as a quick way for people to see how to
> author various constructions.
>
> Are there ideas for how the LaTeX source will be aware that
> |A|
> means absolute value (or whichever of the many other
> things it might mean)?
>
> I think it is reasonable to have several macros
>
> \abs{A}
> \det{A}
> \card{A}
>
> all of which render as
> |A| .
> But where is the information which provides the intent?
>
>
> On Wed, 7 Dec 2022, Deyan Ginev wrote:
>
> > Hi Lorenzo,
> >
> > Great to hear that LyX has a MathML generator, I wasn't aware of that. I
> see that it's written in C++ and covers a
> > lot of territory. Cool!
> > Including LyX in the W3C page is exactly what we would want to do,
> especially if you're planning a MathML Core
> > update.
> >
> > As to "transition guides":
> > 1. I think it will be very useful if we could prepare a large "vanilla"
> LaTeX document full of equations, which
> > exercises all of MathML Core. That way any latex-based generator can
> have a baseline for browser testing.
> > 2. It may also be useful to have an itemized list of the small changes
> (such as <mo> no longer allowing the
> > "accent" attribute), which developers could use as a "checklist" while
> refactoring their code.
> >
> > Maybe some of these kinds of resources already exist? I could help with
> compiling the LaTeX doc if need be, but
> > the itemized list will likely require the time of the usual MathML Core
> suspects.
> >
> > Greetings,
> > Deyan
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 11:45 AM Lorenzo Bertini <
> lorenzobertini97@gmail.com> wrote:
> >       Il 06/12/22 09:04, Frédéric WANG ha scritto:
> >       > Hello,
> >       >
> >       > For historical reasons, many MathML generators are based on
> MathML 3, or
> >       > even the subset supported by Firefox. Now that browsers have
> been moving
> >       > to MathML Core, it would be good to have a list of tools that
> have been
> >       > updated to be more aligned with MathML Core (for some definition
> of
> >       > "aligned") and be recommended for users.
> >       >
> >       > We already have https://www.w3.org/wiki/Math_Tools but I'm not
> sure it's
> >       > really up-to-date (even the two links of the Browsers section
> are broken
> >       > and the CG's polyfills are not listed...). Perhaps it should be
> >       > refreshed and reorganized so users targeting native browser
> support can
> >       > more easily find relevant tools?
> >       >
> >       > To start the discussion:
> >       >
> >       > - We can probably remove "Mozilla Gecko/Firefox" and "Apple
> WebKit" from
> >       > the list, since all the three main engines are going to support
> MathML
> >       > Core.
> >       > - I'm still maintaining TeXZilla and it was updated in 2019
> during the
> >       > MathML Core simplification (although it may probably still
> generate
> >       > non-MathML Core features in some rare cases).
> >       >
> >       > This idea originated from the MDN discussions at
> >       > https://github.com/mdn/content/pull/22640.
> >       >
> >
> >       I highly suggest adding LyX (https://www.lyx.org/) to the list.
> It is an
> >       actively maintained document processor that can output in a
> variety of
> >       formats, including HTML/Docbook/Epub with MathML math. I've been
> >       authoring MathML ebooks for the longest time with it.
> >
> >       Also, I think the "others" category should be renamed to "Document
> >       processors".
> >
> >       On a side note, I sometimes send patches for LyX about MathML
> output.
> >       What would I need to do to make it MathML core compliant?
> >
> >       Thanks,
> >       --
> >       Lorenzo
> >
> >
> >