[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2022-01-16


text version:

                              – DRAFT –
            Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

16 June 2022

    [2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.

       [2] https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/4e5482e3-94c9-4875-abb7-1bf44c66bdf9/20220616T150000
       [3] https://www.w3.org/2022/06/16-i18n-irc


           Addison, Atsushi, Felix, Fuqiao, JcK, Richard


           Addison Phillips

           addison, xfq_


     1. [4]Agenda Review
     2. [5]Action Items
     3. [6]Info Share
     4. [7]RADAR Review
     5. [8]RTL scripts update
     6. [9]WICG/manifest-incubations review
     7. [10]WebGPU
     8. [11]agenda+ Add commentary to 9.3 Working with personal
     9. [12]AOB?
    10. [13]Summary of action items

Meeting minutes

    <addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference

   Agenda Review

   Action Items

    <addison> [14]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/

      [14] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

    close ACTION-1157

    <trackbot> Closed ACTION-1157.

    atsushi: jlreq-d repo created

    close ACTION-1158

    <trackbot> Closed ACTION-1158.

    close ACTION-1161

    <trackbot> Closed ACTION-1161.

   Info Share

    <addison> xfq: trying to use netlify to preview changes to

    <addison> ... only did i18n-drafts and specdev

    <addison> ... previously we used pr-preview, but it cannot
    handle the changes to images or styles or scripts or webfonts

    <addison> ... netlify can handle this

    <addison> ... doesn't support diff

    <addison> ... for specs plan is to use both; pr-preview for
    diff and netlify for preview

    <addison> ... and netlify needed for web pages

    addison: the preview is better than before

   RADAR Review


      [15] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

    addison: DCAT 3?

    atsushi: still reviewing

   RTL scripts update


      [16] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2022AprJun/0119.html


      [17] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/399


      [18] https://deploy-preview-399--i18n-drafts.netlify.app/questions/qa-scripts.en

    r12a: this is quite a big change

    <r12a> [19]https://www.w3.org/International/questions/

      [19] https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-scripts.en.html

    r12a: if you look at the original ^
    … if you look at the old article, you'll see the question used
    to be "What directions are commonly localized languages written
    … if you look at the Netlify version, it's "What languages are
    written with right-to-left scripts?"
    … immediately after the answer there's a ToC
    … I removed the ToC
    … languages are never RTL, scripts are RTL
    … you have this very looong table
    … total number of speakers from SIL Ethnologue
    … grand total of 2,305,048,719 potential users of RTL scripts
    … and these are just modern languages
    … and there's a paragraph at the bottom about historical usage
    of scripts
    … I might have to rearrange the table
    … in alphabetical order before publishing
    … this was in response to Craig Cornelius saying the new
    scripts are not mentioned in this article

    addison: any objections to publishing this?


    ACTION: richard: publish updated rtl languages article

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1162 - Publish updated rtl languages
    article [on Richard Ishida - due 2022-06-23].

   WICG/manifest-incubations review


      [20] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is:issue+is:open+label:s:wicg-manifest-incubations


      [21] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1554

    addison: as an introduction, this group has a proposal
    … to add some stuff in the web app manifest
    … adding translations to the manifest format
    … the first tissue is they don't define how the matching is


      [22] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1555

    xfq: I guess because it's still a draft proposal

    addison: any objections?


    addison: the next issue
    … they match the translations according to the order of the
    … if the document gets serialised the order might be wrong

    xfq: why would serialisation change the order?

    addison: think of your favourite JSON serialization library
    … does it change the order during serialisation?

    xfq: I guess that depends on the implementation

    addison: yeah

    atsushi: I worked with some localisation tools like Pontoon
    … @@

    <atsushi> [23]pontoon

      [23] https://pontoon.mozilla.org/

    <atsushi> +1 to go

    <r12a> +1


      [24] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1556

    addison: last one
    … they don't associate dir with each translation

    <atsushi> +1

    addison: they only have a file level dir

    <r12a> [25]https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/issues/

      [25] https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/issues/2780#issuecomment-1157495027



      [26] https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/issues/2780#issuecomment-1157495027


      [27] https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/issues/2780#issuecomment-1141227619

    [xfq introduces the issue]

    r12a: [28]https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/issues/
    2780#issuecomment-1141227619 mentions "switch the language of
    error messages and other strings after device creation", but
    it's not related to this issue, which is about the lang & dir
    of the string itself
    … even if it's not changed

      [28] https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/issues/2780#issuecomment-1141227619

    addison: each message item should have their own lang & dir
    … it's ok to have a default

    r12a: what we want is to let them do both
    … they only need to specify the strings that are problematic
    … other strings should use the default

    r12a: you need to have the declaration at the top of the file
    and have the possibility of using and override on every string
    … not related to change the language

    JcK: when do we need to tag these strings?

    r12a: like numbers

    JcK: the other great example is interntaional domain names

   agenda+ Add commentary to 9.3 Working with personal names

    <r12a> [29]https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/

      [29] https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/72#discussion_r899116063

    <r12a> [30]https://

      [30] https://deploy-preview-72--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/

    <r12a> [31]https://

      [31] https://deploy-preview-72--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#loc_names

    r12a: I took the text from the article
    … there's a thread in github
    … addison I think I'm mostly OK


      [32] https://deploy-preview-72--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#loc_names_global_audience

    r12a: my action, as I understood, was to provide a list of
    names people could just pick up and use
    … what they need to know is what these weird names come from
    … most of the lists of people's names are very European centric
    … maybe have Japan and Russia and Turkey and Israel
    … but really we want African names, Southeast Asian names, and
    so on and so forth
    … but for Southeast Asia and China
    … I ended up looking at Wikipedia

    addison: when we talked to security folks
    … they use Alice and Bob

    r12a: I guess what I was wondering was
    … maybe we could define regions
    … I'll ignore North America, but add South America

    addison: Africa

    r12a: China, Japan

    JcK: South America they have cool indigenous names

    r12a: not by country, but by large geographical region
    … @@

    r12a: I'm not dealing with family names
    … in Thailand, they use nicknames

    addison: seems like a lot of work
    … we're writing a baby name finder

    atsushi: Vietnamese names
    … they use pronunciation clusters
    … some of my friends have 3 clusters, some of my friends have 4
    … might be interesting for western people

    r12a: same with Chinese names
    … starts getting complicated
    … at least I need a bit more time

    addison: we have three options
    … 1. @@
    … do we want to make a list?

    JcK: i think what we're trying to do is correct
    … @@

    r12a: and there are cultures where you're not supposed to use
    somebody's name

    addison: I can make a proposal


Summary of action items

     1. [33]richard: publish updated rtl languages article

Received on Thursday, 16 June 2022 16:23:57 UTC