- From: r12a <ishida@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 16:19:31 +0000
- To: www International <www-international@w3.org>
https://www.w3.org/2020/03/12-i18n-minutes.html
text version follows:
- DRAFT -
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
12 Mar 2020
[2]Agenda
[2]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2020Mar/0003.html
Attendees
Present
addison, xfq, atsushi, r12a, Bert, JcK
Regrets
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
addison, Bert
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]Agenda and Minutes
2. [5]Action Items
3. [6]Info Share
4. [7]RADAR Review
5. [8]CSS Issue 4497 (limiting local fonts)
6. [9]Specdev PR related to locale based formats
7. [10]AOB?
* [11]Summary of Action Items
* [12]Summary of Resolutions
__________________________________________________________
<addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference
<agendabot> clear agenda
<addison> scribenick: addison
Agenda and Minutes
Action Items
[13]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
[13] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
action-856?
<trackbot> action-856 -- Richard Ishida to Check the time
planner in the meeting page to ensure it is correct for 2020 --
due 2020-02-27 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[14]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/856
[14] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/856
close action-856
<trackbot> Closed action-856.
action-862?
<trackbot> action-862 -- Addison Phillips to Chase down the
missing review request -- due 2020-03-12 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[15]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/862
[15] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/862
close action-862
<trackbot> Closed action-862.
action-863?
<trackbot> action-863 -- Fuqiao Xue to Liaise with atsushi to
come up with list of items to review/triage in teleconference
-- due 2020-03-12 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[16]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/863
[16] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/863
close action-863
<trackbot> Closed action-863.
action-864?
<trackbot> action-864 -- Richard Ishida to Review prs on
string-meta -- due 2020-03-12 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[17]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/864
[17] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/864
action-865?
<trackbot> action-865 -- Richard Ishida to Fix page at
[18]https://w3c.github.io/i18n-tests/results/bidi-algorithm#rli
_etc wrt which edge is being reported -- due 2020-03-12 -- OPEN
[18] https://w3c.github.io/i18n-tests/results/bidi-algorithm#rli_etc
<trackbot>
[19]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/865
[19] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/865
close action-865
<trackbot> Closed action-865.
action-866?
<trackbot> action-866 -- Addison Phillips to After richard
fixes test page, open an issue against webkit regarding support
for isolating controls -- due 2020-03-12 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[20]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/866
[20] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/866
close action-866
<trackbot> Closed action-866.
<scribe> ACTION: richard: think about how to track bugs
reported against products such as browsers
<trackbot> Created ACTION-868 - Think about how to track bugs
reported against products such as browsers [on Richard Ishida -
due 2020-03-19].
action-867?
<trackbot> action-867 -- Addison Phillips to Remind group to
read css 4497 for next week -- due 2020-03-12 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[21]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/867
[21] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/867
close action-867
<trackbot> Closed action-867.
Info Share
richard: unicode released v13.0
... if you use uniview, that's already up to date
<xfq> re browser bugs, there's a
[22]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-issues/issues repo too
[22] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-issues/issues
RADAR Review
[23]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
[23] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
CSS Issue 4497 (limiting local fonts)
[24]https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4497
[24] https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4497
<Bert> scribenick: Bert
jck: what the dialog box should be like. Single question, do
you want to install these minority fonts.
r12a: New approach to fonts, really need to serve webfonts all
the time. Fonts downloaded with the page all the time.
... I used Dreamweaver recently. It doesn't show webfonts.
... Shift in how to handle fonts, towards webfonts.
addison: Minority languages issue. Not everybody can host a
webfont for their page.
r12a: Most people probably can, but it is not easy.
addison: Often goes together with other things, like installing
a keyboard for the language.
<xfq> like "a custom setting, that shows users the fonts the
browser knows about on disk that are not OS-provided fonts, and
users can opt those in to the set of fonts sites can access" in
the last comment
addison: Is there anything we need to push, then?
r12a: If we are moving to webfonts, the CSS WG needs to do more
education.
xfq: Last proposal on the issue is to include an opt-in for
users.
addison: If a web page has a long list of fonts, you don't want
to have a dialog box pop up for every one.
... We don't have to design the mechanism, but there should be
a way for a page to use a local font. Maybe it doesn;t work
unless th euser does something special.
... R12a, will you write our reply?
r12a: It should not just be *my* response.
... Useful if more WG members participate first.
<addison> ACTION: addison: write a "sense of the i18n WG"
comment on css 4497
<trackbot> Created ACTION-869 - Write a "sense of the i18n wg"
comment on css 4497 [on Addison Phillips - due 2020-03-19].
JcK: Wondering about diff. between support for certain
characters and support for a specific font. Not the same thing,
but...
addison: In the bad old days, you used font encodings. Which we
as a WG hated.
JcK: [some noise on the line]
... Is fonts all we're talking about?
r12a: Fonts is the issue here, because of issues of
fingerprinting.
... If people have to OK each local font, then fingerprinting
won't work, will it?
... The fingerprinting relies on quickly trying a hundred
fonts.
addison: But it would be really annoying if the user were asked
for every site again.
r12a: You'd recognize that a page was doing fingerprinting.
addison: Browser makers have to come up with something usable
for their users. But in the end minority languages should still
be possible. Some font encoding.
r12a: Not really font encoding. But a font.
addison: So anything else we want to resolve?
... I think relying only on webfonts is the wrong solution for
minority languages.
JcK: Need to provide a way to get to the fonts people need. But
it should be a nice way.
... Maybe that is what can say: Need a good way for users of
minority languages to get to their fonts.
r12a: Also look out for what Henri is really saying in the
issue. He says you really only need one system font. Which is
not true.
addison: Right, Noto is not the answer.
Specdev PR related to locale based formats
<addison> [25]https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/40
[25] https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/40
addison: I made a pull request on specdev ^^^
... Amazon question on locale-neutral.
... I thought we had documentation on that, but we don't.
r12a: specdev needs to have a list of does and donts
<addison> www.org/TR/ltli
addison: LTLI has some definitions and other things, but it
needs work.
... r12a, do you want to review my wording?
... I added at least a place to add the does and donts.
r12a: But then we need to add them...
... What is a "local-neutral serialization form"?
addison: Think of XML Schema. Can use that to exchange dates
and times.
... Difficult to extract values back out of localized forms.
JcK: Can you make a note that is a bit more explicit? I worked
a lot on data formats.
... Not always clear that it is really locale-neutral.
... Tell me more exactly what you're thinking and I'll tell you
what I think about it.
... There's a whole can of worms behind it.
addison: We've mostly been succesful. Today we're working more
on localization, such as direction in JSON-LD.
... I spend a lot of time education people at Amazon. Whether
to compute presentation language upstream or downstream...
... I'm looking for a writeup of the basics.
... Not more. You could write a book about it.
JcK: Goal is reasonable. But here is an example:
... Composition, people have strong opinions on what is
important.
... My guess is that Amazon, being in the grocery business, has
the same.
... We should also think about what's our scope.
addison: Let me think about a scope statement.
<addison> ACTION: addison: write scope statement for
locale-related work
<trackbot> Created ACTION-870 - Write scope statement for
locale-related work [on Addison Phillips - due 2020-03-19].
addison: [...] BCP47 and "Unicode locale".
... Please look at my response to the Personalization Semantics
self-review.
<addison>
[26]https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/133
#issuecomment-593450546
[26]
https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/133#issuecomment-593450546
r12a: We should talk about how to respond. Maybe make multiple
issues.
addison: Mostly they didn't grok the jargon.
AOB?
addison: Please look at the list of issues proposed for closing
before next week's telcon.
r12a: Can make comments in the tracker issue rather than in
email.
The list of issues is long. How to process them efficiently?
atsushi: Most issues are easier to close.
... Discuss by email?
r12a: Best to put comments in the tracker issue, so we keep a
record in case we need to go back.
[Adjourn]
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: addison: write a "sense of the i18n WG" comment
on css 4497
[NEW] ACTION: addison: write scope statement for locale-related
work
[NEW] ACTION: richard: think about how to track bugs reported
against products such as browsers
Summary of Resolutions
[End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 12 March 2020 16:19:36 UTC