[minutes] Arabic layout telecon 2016-06-28

https://www.w3.org/2016/06/28-alreq-minutes.html




text version follows:


Arabic Layout TF telecon

28 Jun 2016

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2016/06/28-alreq-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Shervin, r12a, Mostafa, Najib

    Regrets
    Chair
           Shervin

    Scribe
           mostafa

Contents

      * [3]Topics
       file:///tmp/lynxXXXXuP98eR/L5738-1978TMP.html#agenda

      * [4]Summary of Action Items
       file:///tmp/lynxXXXXuP98eR/L5738-1978TMP.html#ActionSummary

      * [5]Summary of Resolutions
      __________________________________________________________

       [5] file:///tmp/lynxXXXXuP98eR/L5738-1978TMP.html#ResolutionSummary

    <scribe> ScribeNick: mostafa

    <najib>
    [6]https://github.com/w3c/alreq/wiki/Draft-for-%E2%80%9C2.3-Dir
    ection%E2%80%9D

       [6] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/wiki/Draft-for-“2.3-Direction”

    Shervin: In the wiki page for the “2.3 direction’ draft I’m
    seeing this draft.

    Mostafa: I didn’t go into fine details and edge cases in this
    draft.
    ... It’s just a big picture overview of how the Arabic text is
    rendered.

    <Shervin>
    [7]http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/bidi.jsp?a=%DA%A9%D9%84%D9%8
    5%D9%87+word&p=Auto

       [7] http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/bidi.jsp?a=کلمه+word&p=Auto

    Richard: The image for the logical/visual order can be a little
    confusing.
    ... An arrow could help.

    Shervin: Another option is to add position numbers.

    <najib> s/Heh/Teh/

    <najib> s/U+0647/U+0629/

    Richard: We can use “display order” instead of “visual order”
    to make it more clear.

    Shervin: We can also use something like “memory order” for
    “logical order”.
    ... Or “reordered string” instead of “visual order”.
    ... So, do you want me to merge this PR?

    Mostafa: No, I have to update this using your feedbacks.

    [8]http://quod.lib.umich.edu/j/jep/3336451.0013.105?rgn=main;vi
    ew=fulltext

       [8] 
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/j/jep/3336451.0013.105?rgn=main;view=fulltext

    Shervin: On the justification, there are two schools of
    thought.
    ... One is discussed in the article “Justify Just or Just
    Jusify”.
    ... The other is writen about by Thomas Milo.

    Richard: Azzedine’s approach is based on adding more kashida.
    ... Tom’s approach also uses extra spaces between words and
    inside words.

    Shervin: In reality there should be a mix of kashida and
    inter-word spaces.

    Najib: Kashida and inter-word spaces are the main justification
    mechanisms used in type-writers.
    ... Justification using ligatures is more complicated and not
    easy to achieve using mechanics.

    Richard: In InDesign they do allow you to use ligatures and
    swash kaafs in the end of the words, which is not actually
    kashida.
    ... Tom’s application, Tasmeem, is used in InDesign.
    ... But he also thinks that you have to use more spaces than
    what Azzedine suggests.
    ... In type-writers a tatweel is used, not a kashida. They are
    different.
    ... These are the tools used for streching the lines for
    justification.
    ... And there are the rules for each writing style and each
    tool.

    Shervin: I agree that it’s not black or white.
    ... It’s also totally dependant on the environment.
    ... More complex environments can have, for example, longer
    kaaf.

    <Shervin> Shervin-

    Shervin: Plain text environments are more limited and can
    probably only use tatweels and extra spaces.
    ... We just have to cover the nuances of using these models.

    Mostafa: We can only cover all these tools and solutions, and
    mention that there are different approaches to mixing these
    tools. We don’t have to make a decision ourselve.s

    Shervin: +1

    Richard: At a later step, we can also cover how browsers
    implement Arabic justification.
    ... I suggest to use Tom Milo’s definitions for tatweel and
    kashida.
    ... When he says “tatweel”, he means the Unicode character.
    ... But when he says kashida he means extending the horizontal
    line of the letters.

    Shervin: Behnam calls that elongation.

    [9]https://github.com/w3c/alreq/wiki/Arabic-numerals-%281st-Dra
    ft%29

       [9] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/wiki/Arabic-numerals-(1st-Draft)

    scribe: Moving on to Najib’s new text.

    Najib: I want to cover different families of numbers, what are
    their origins, and some of the issues regarding the number
    families like fonts and keyboards.

    <najib> Writing and reading numbers, bidi with numbers

    Shervin: I suggest avoiding Arabic digits term for the
    U+0030—U+0039.
    ... It’s defined in the glossary, we can use that.

    Najib: I have a concern about pronounciation and how the Arab
    read their numbers
    ... What about Persian?

    Shervin: I’m not sure about that section. We are talking about
    text, not how different languages read their texts.

    Richard: +1

    Najib: Action-37 is done.

    Mostafa: Action-55 is still ongoing.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

    [End of minutes]

Received on Tuesday, 28 June 2016 19:15:22 UTC