- From: AUDRAIN LUC <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>
- Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 17:44:14 +0200
- To: "ishida@w3.org" <ishida@w3.org>, Dave Cramer <dauwhe@gmail.com>
- CC: W3C Digital Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org>, www International <www-international@w3.org>
About quotations marks, here are some hints about French usage : Quotation marks are called « guillemets » and are used in typography for quotation. At first level, they are called French guillemets : « ... » At second level, they are called English guillemets and are written with these glyohs “ ... ” Exemples : * « Là, tout n'est qu'ordre et beauté, luxe, calme et volupté. » * « L'ouvreuse m'a dit : “ Donnez-moi votre ticket. ” Je le lui ai donné. » Luc Le 07/04/2016 16:39, « ishida@w3.org » <ishida@w3.org> a écrit : >On 07/04/2016 09:12, Dave Cramer wrote: >> There's a mention of this in the CSS Generated Content Spec at [1]. See >> example 9 and the preceding note: > >Thanks for the link, Dave. The most interesting part of example 9 is >actually a different case from the one i had mentioned, ie. it is: > >Il disait: « Il faut mettre l’action en ‹ fast forward ›. » > >which has the pattern A(A(B)), where A stands for one language, and B >for another. > >It seems quite logical to use ‹ around fast forward in this case, >because the parens belong to the language of the text containing the >quotation, which in this case is still French. > >The case of Lucy and Mr. Emerson has the pattern A(B(B)), which >introduces a secondary quotation mark inside text that has already >switched language, and therefore presents a somewhat more interesting >conundrum. > >So far, most people have suggested that this should be written: > >Mais Lucy répond: «Give George my love – once only. Tell him, ‹Muddle.›». > >following the rule that the form of the quotation marks ignores any >change in language from that of the reader, so as not to avoid >introducing visual confusion. Which seems reasonable - although i'd >still like to hear from people who work for big publishing houses about >what their style guides say. > > > > >The real difficulty starts when you begin marking things up. This is >what i'm trying to get to. If the html tag has lang=fr and the para is >marked up like this: > ><p>Mais Lucy répond: <q lang=en>Give George my love – once only. Tell >him, <q>Muddle.</q></q>.</p> > >and, if you use the styling suggested in the css-content spec, ie. > >:lang(fr) > * { quotes: "« " " »" "‹ " " ›" } >:lang(en) > * { quotes: "“" "”" "‘" "’" } > >you won't end up with > >Mais Lucy répond: « Give George my love – once only. Tell him, ‹Muddle.› >». > >you'll end up with > >Mais Lucy répond: « Give George my love – once only. Tell him, ‘Muddle.’ >». > >because the quotation is marked up for language. > >Ok, so let's try applying the styling pattern recommended by the HTML5 >spec, which is (in slightly edited form): > >:root:lang(en), :not(:lang(en)) > :lang(en) { quotes: '“' '”' '‘' '’' } > >:root:lang(fr), :not(:lang(fr)) > :lang(fr) { quotes: '«' '»' '‹' '›' } > > >Now you end up with: > >Mais Lucy répond: “Give George my love – once only. Tell him, ‘Muddle.’”. > > > >To bring this in line with what most people are suggesting so far, it >seems to me that the styling for q needs to be based on the language >identified as that of the reader, only. In many cases, that's the >language at the top of the page in the html tag. In a bilingual page in >French Canadian, however, the lang attribute you need may be somewhere >further down the hierarchy, at some rather arbitray point, and may be >difficult to identify. > >Perhaps what we need is a CSS rule that says, 'If you're not inside a q >element, then set the quotes per the language outside the quote; but if >you are inside, ignore the language info.' > >I'm not quite sure how to say that in selector-speak yet. > > > > >ri >
Received on Thursday, 7 April 2016 15:44:43 UTC