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Re: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

From: Mark Davis ☕ <mark@macchiato.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 16:09:50 +0100
Message-ID: <CAJ2xs_Enxj5JQG4iK3JuTRYg0LXH12WH3Z=onbztJiX2b0XS4g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com>
Cc: Andre Schappo <A.Schappo@lboro.ac.uk>, www International <www-international@w3.org>, Don Hollander <gm@aptld.org>, "public-iri@w3.org" <public-iri@w3.org>
If you could get that to happen in all DNS servers, great.

Otherwise, I think it would be productive to have clear guidelines for
clients.


Mark <https://google.com/+MarkDavis>

*— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —*


On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com> wrote:

>  The handling of %xx-encoded domain names in DNS servers would be a
> fallback for use in legacy systems that are not IDN-aware.
>
>
>
> So the length limit argument doesn’t carry a lot of weight – it is
> strictly a transitional deployment enhancement for working around legacy
> components which extract domain names from URIs but rcan only process
> 7-bit URIs and not 8-bit IRIs.
>
>
>
> You can deploy IDNs when all of  the applications you care about will
> work for the users you care about for the DNS names you want to use.
>
>
>
> Components that handle IRIs directly and pull out domain names for future
> processing shouldn’t ever need the %xx encoding, although decoding it is
> also a good idea.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* mark.edward.davis@gmail.com [mailto:mark.edward.davis@gmail.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Mark Davis ?
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 05, 2014 2:16 PM
> *To:* Larry Masinter
> *Cc:* Andre Schappo; www International; Don Hollander; public-iri@w3.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs
>
>
>
> If you mean having the DNS system natively accept %xx for domain labels as
> well as Punycode, I suspect that that ship has long since sailed. (That was
> one of the options discussed, but was turned down because of the length
> limitations.)
>
>
>
> If on the other hand, you mean that client software should accept %xx
> notation as well as straight Unicode and punycode, that is another story.
> That can be handled by a client-side mapping, permitted by either IDNA2008
> or UTS46. (And I agree that it's a good idea.)
>
>
>
> With that, I could type in my address bar any of:
>
>    1. xn--idna--x-l6c.blogspot.com
>    2. IDNA-ȿ-x.blogspot.com <http://xn--idna--x-l6c.blogspot.com>
>    3. IDNA-%C8%BF-x.blogspot.com
>    4. IDNA-Ȿ-X.BLOGSPOT.COM <http://xn--idna--x-lt7e.BLOGSPOT.COM>
>    5. IDNA-%E2%B1%BE-X.BLOGSPOT.COM
>
>  And they'd all resolve to xn--idna--x-l6c.blogspot.com.
>
>    1. I just checked on Chrome, and all of these work.
>    2. Firefox is a bit odd: if I type in the #3, it fails; *but* it
>    converts it in the address bar, so a subsequent enter goes to the right
>    place. #4/#5 just fail.
>    3. Don't know about other browsers.
>
>
>
>
> Mark <https://google.com/+MarkDavis>
>
>
>
> *— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —*
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com> wrote:
>
>  there’s a gap between IDN and URI in that IRI -> URI would prefer to use
> the %xx percent-hex URL encoding in general.
>
>
>
> What would be preferable would be to insure that DNS requests for %xx
> encoded names is an acceptable alternative to punycode.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Andre Schappo [mailto:A.Schappo@lboro.ac.uk]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 04, 2014 3:51 PM
> *To:* www International
> *Cc:* Don Hollander; public-iri@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs
>
>
>
> ① Is this document available online? I have looked round http://aptld.orgbut cannot find it.
>
> ② There are indeed barriers to the effective, real world use of IDNs. A
> fundamental problem is that IDNs, in general, are not properly catered for
> and not properly integrated into systems. One reason often quoted for
> treating IDNs differently is "Security". Well, I posit that any IDN
> security issues pale in comparison to the ubiquitous "… for further
> information please click here."
>
> Here are some examples from Social Media:
>
> Twitter
>
> If the Unicode form is entered —
>
> #test  http://北大.中
>
> It is not recognised as a Domain Name & not displayed as clickable link
>
> If the punycode form is entered —
>
> #test http://xn--djry4l.xn--fiqs8s
>
> It is now recognised as a Domain Name and displayed as a clickable link
> but displayed as punycode instead of Unicode
>
> Sina Weibo
>
> Same results —
> #test# http://北大.中
> #test# http://xn--djry4l.xn--fiqs8s
>
> There is also the related issue of having to Percent Encode the Unicode
> pathname components of a URL.
>
> ③ In my experience, another fundamental problem is the lack of IT
> Internationalization teaching in Schools and Universities. Certainly in
> England, IT Internationalisation has not yet become an accepted part of the
> curriculum. We need to produce students that have
> an appreciation/understanding of IT Internationalisation in order to,
> amongst other goals, properly integrate IDNs into systems/apps/websites
> …etc…
>
> For several years I have been teaching a module entitled "International
> Computing" which covers several aspects of IT i18n. One of the topics I
> cover is IDNs :) And I am keeping my students up to date with the idn new
> gTLDs as they are delegated to DNS Root :)
>
> During my years teaching this module I have found few students (regardless
> of which country they come from) with even a basic appreciation of IT
> Internationalization because it is a topic that was never discussed/raised
> in their prior studies.
>
> So, any initiative in "to improve the use of IDN TLDs in the real world"
> should get Universities onboard and encourage Universities/Schools to teach
> "IT Internationalization"
>
> André
> http://schappo.blogspot.co.uk
>
>
>
> On 4 Mar 2014, at 12:14, Richard Ishida wrote:
>
>
>
>  I was contacted last week by Don Hollander, General Manager of the Asia
> Pacific Top Level Domain Association, who is trying to improve the use of
> IDN TLDs in the real world, and looking for support.
>
> See the attached PDF (from him) outlining what are the barriers to the
> effective use of IDN TLDs and who can help address these issues.
>
> He's hoping to create a community of interested stakeholders. He expects
> this community to include ICANN, many ccTLDs, ISOC, and hopefully
> commercial developers. He is also looking to set up some opportunities to
> meet and discuss how to move things forward.
>
> If you are interested in getting involved, please raise your voice.
>
> Don says "There is a HUGE population with interest in this - but it is not
> really the current 2Billion, but the next 2 Billion - those who aren’t yet
> connected."
>
> RI
> <Addressing the issue of Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs-1.pdf>
>
>
>
> 马馬骉驫马馬骉驫马馬骉驫马馬骉驫
> http://twitter.com/andreschappo
> http://schappo.blogspot.co.uk
> http://weibo.com/andreschappo
> http://blog.sina.com.cn/andreschappo
>
>
>
>
>
Received on Wednesday, 5 March 2014 15:10:39 UTC

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