- From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 22:25:57 +0100
- CC: "www-international@w3.org" <www-international@w3.org>
Cindy, Mark, John, Kuro, Gunnar, Thanks for your comments. I included some additional text in the article for a number of things, including: a. an extension to Multiple family names, including references to Brazilian names and maternal-paternal vs vice versa b. a new section called Ambiguity in written forms, that discusses ideographic characters in Japanese and kana c. various small additions to the lower part of the article. I didn't feel it was appropriate to include in the article all of the supplementary information you provided, but I gathered it together at http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Personal_names and pointed to it from the Further reading section of the article. Cheers, RI On 04/08/2011 05:10, Cindy Conlin wrote: > Great job at capturing a lot of information in a very concise article. > > Here are my thoughts: > > 1.Mark suggested including some of the possible tasks a system must > perform on names. Here are some of the additional tasks the system I > work on at the LDS Church performs on names: > > a.Combine the names of multiple individuals for display, such as a > couple (e.g. “Barak and Michelle Obama”) or a family with children. > (“Obama: Barak, Michelle, Malia, and Sasha”) > > b.Romanize names using transliteration software. The ideal is for > romanizations to be entered by users with the spelling they prefer, but > in some cases this is not possible. Sometimes our automated > Romanization is used for name matching purposes (especially if we need > to match names across scripts, like government terrorist watch list > software must do), and at other times it is a starting point for a data > entry user who will correct the spelling. > > c.Match names with legal documents, such as passports or government > issued ID cards, which sometimes requires storing multiple variations of > the name. > > d.Guess at how a person’s name may change upon marriage, based on > locale-specific rules and the husband and wife’s names before marriage. > This guess is used as a starting point for data entry users who then > adjust the name based on the couple’s choices. > > 2.The “Given name and patronymic” section mentions “Other cultures where > a person has one given name followed by a patronymic include parts of > Southern India, Malaysia and Indonesia.” Our data in these cultures has > a large number of names that consist of a given name only, with no > patronym. Some of our less-enlightened software requires family names, > which creates significant problems in these cultures, as users enter > garbage data like “.” or “Mr.” in the family name just to escape the > field. (We may want to mention the problem of required fields somewhere > in the “Implications for field design” section. IMHO, the only name > field that can be required is a given name, because that is the only > name that is consistently used across cultures). > > 3.The “Multiple family names” section mentions “Spanish-speaking people > will commonly have two family names.” This is also common in > Portuguese-speaking cultures. It’s also possible to have up to four > family names in the name—sometimes people inherit names from all four > grandparents; other times they have additional names from spouses. > > 4.The “Variant word forms” section gives an example of the > gender-specific family names in Russia. Just wanted to mention that > when you display the family name in a context where you are showing > multiple people (such as in a display of a couple or a family including > children), you need to display the plural ending of the family name, > which can be different from both the masculine and feminine versions. > > 5.The “Inheritance of names” section has a paragraph about Spanish > names. It may be helpful to note that Spanish and Portuguese cultures > vary in the order in which they position the maternal and paternal > family names. In general, most of the data I’ve observed has Portuguese > cultures ordering the names “Maternal Paternal” and Spanish cultures > ordering the names “Paternal Maternal”, but I understand that this > varies even within Spanish cultures. > > 6.The 4^th paragraph in the “Strategies for splitting up names” section > has a typo—“sent” should be “send” in the sentence “Or perhaps it's > because you want to sent them emails…” > > 7.The “Strategies for splitting up names” has a paragraph stating that > if you want to sort Japanese names, you need an extra field to type how > their name is pronounced. We’ve found that it’s been helpful to store a > Kana version of names not only for sorting purposes, but also because > > a.The kana name is useful input into Romanization software. > > b.The kana name is helpful to other Japanese readers of the name who may > not be familiar with the correct pronunciation. For example, to > facilitate church members pronouncing each other’s names, we show the > kana in parentheses after the Kanji name on our congregation lists. I’m > not sure if this is a big help or only a little one—Richard, with your > Japanese experience you’re in a better position than I am to comment on > this. If you believe facilitating the pronunciation of the name to > other Japanese readers is a valid reason a system should store a kana > name, we may want to include it in the list of questions in after the > statement “The decision about which is most appropriate will depend to > some extent on what you are collecting people’s names for, and how you > intend to use them.“ > > 8.The “Implications for character support” section doesn’t mention > Japanese kana names, but I think it would be very helpful to readers to > include it there, so readers understand that to fully support Japanese, > they may actually need THREE script versions of the names. That section > currently has an image showing two name fields: Name (in your alphabet) > and Name (Latin alphabet)—it may be helpful to have an additional image > showing three name fields: Name (Kanji), Name (Kana) and Name (Latin > alphabet). > > *From:*www-international-request@w3.org > [mailto:www-international-request@w3.org] *On Behalf Of *Mark Davis ? > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 03, 2011 6:24 PM > *To:* ishida@w3.org > *Cc:* www-international@w3.org > *Subject:* Re: Draft for review: Personal names around the world > > > http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-personal-names > > The overview of personal names is very useful. However, I think there > are some problems with the guidance given in the section "implications > for field design". > > Look at this from a functional approach. A particular system may need to > do some of the following tasks: > > 1. Have a short, personal name, eg "Welcome back, Mark" > 2. Have a relatively unique, informal name, eg "Mark Davis commented on > your post". > 3. Have a name to use in UIs that have "Sort by: Family Name" (meaning: > or best equivalent) > 4. Have a name to use in UIs that have "Sort by: Given Name" (meaning: > or best equivalent) > 5. Have a name for more formal contexts, such as a postal mailing, eg > "Dr. Mark Davis" > 6. Etc. > > I think having more such tasks listed in the document would help to > motivate (and test) the recommendations give in the section > "implications for field design". > > In particular, I think systems are often driven to asking for "Family > Name" and "Given Name" because they can (or think they can) generate > each of the forms needed for at least the tasks #1-#4. There is some > tension, because you don't want to have a UI that asks for 8 different > forms of a person's name; people find that onerous! > > > > NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the intended > recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. > Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. > If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by > reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. > > -- Richard Ishida Internationalization Activity Lead W3C (World Wide Web Consortium) http://www.w3.org/International/ http://rishida.net/ Register for the W3C MultilingualWeb Workshop! Limerick, 21-22 September 2011 http://multilingualweb.eu/register
Received on Thursday, 11 August 2011 21:26:20 UTC