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RE: Authoring HTML: Handling Right-to-left Scripts, additional changes

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:07:59 +0100
To: "'Matitiahu Allouche'" <matial@il.ibm.com>
Cc: <www-international@w3.org>
Message-ID: <013d01ca266f$c4173100$4c459300$@org>
Changes made. Thanks!




Richard Ishida
Internationalization Lead
W3C (World Wide Web Consortium)



From: Matitiahu Allouche [mailto:matial@il.ibm.com] 
Sent: 26 August 2009 01:57
To: Richard Ishida
Cc: www-international@w3.org
Subject: Re: Authoring HTML: Handling Right-to-left Scripts, additional


I have some comments about the ISO Encoding HowTo (at
http://www.w3.org/International/docs/bp-html-bidi/#iso_encoding ) 

1) We find the sentence: 
'Visual' refers to the practice of typing in the Hebrew characters in
reverse order and preventing automatic line breaks. 

This is not a good definition of 'Visual', since there are input methods
which allow to type Hebrew in natural order while storing it in visual
order. Also, preventing automatic line breaks is recommended when the text
is in visual order (to avoid text corruption when text is reflowed
automatically), but it is in no way an essential attribute of visual text.
I suggest to stick to a more classic definition of 'Visual', such as:
'Visual' refers to the practice of storing Hebrew characters in presentation
order, so that there is no reliance on reordering performed by the operating
system or the display subsystem.

2) "all characters in memory in the order" => "all characters are stored in
memory in the order" 

3) We find the sentence: 
Because HTML uses the Unicode bidirectional algorithm, conforming documents
encoded using ISO 8859-8 must be labeled as ISO-8859-8-i. 

This sentence is problematic, IMHO: HTML is a protocol and does not use the
Unicode bidi algorithm.  HTML assumes that Bidi data are stored in logical
order (with the exception of charset="ISO-8859-8"), thus HTML rendering
agents must use the Unicode bidi algorithm to present the bidi data in
correct visual order.  I suggest the following phrasing: 
HTML assumes by default that Bidi data is stored in logical order, to that
rendering agents will have to use the Unicode bidirectional algorithm to
present the text in correct visual order.  If the encoding is ISO-8859-9,
the corresponding charset specification must be ISO-8859-8-i. 

4) "ISO-8859-6 (Arabic) is not visual ordering" => "ISO-8859-6 (Arabic) does
not imply visual ordering" 

Shalom (Regards),  Mati
          Bidi Architect
          Globalization Center Of Competency - Bidirectional Scripts
          IBM Israel
          Phone: +972 2 5888802    Fax: +972 2 5870333    Mobile: +972 52


"Richard Ishida" <ishida@w3.org> 




13/08/2009 22:10 


Authoring HTML: Handling Right-to-left Scripts, additional changes 

Sent by: 




I have implemented the feedback received on this document in the editor's
version at 

I have also, after further discussions, made some further changes as

1. changed Best Practices to Techniques throughout (and just removed from
the title)

2. created 3 new techniques

3. redesigned  <http://www.w3.org/International/docs/bp-html-bidi/uanotes>
http://www.w3.org/International/docs/bp-html-bidi/uanotes and changed the
links after each technique so that there is only one now, pointing to a
section in the uanotes document.  The uanotes document contains a short
summary of any browser-specific note and pointers to tests and results for
more information.  It also contains links to the appropriate section or
sections of the techniques index so you can find more information. This
document still needs some more work.

If you have any comments on the above, please send to this list.  Barring
showstoppers, I'd like to publish the final version in about a week to ten


Richard Ishida
Internationalization Lead
W3C (World Wide Web Consortium)

 <http://www.w3.org/International/> http://www.w3.org/International/
 <http://rishida.net/> http://rishida.net/
Received on Wednesday, 26 August 2009 17:08:23 UTC

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