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RE: Updated Working Draft: Best Practices for Authoring HTML: Handling Right-to-left Scripts

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 21:40:34 +0100
To: "'Matitiahu Allouche'" <matial@il.ibm.com>
Cc: <www-international@w3.org>
Message-ID: <00eb01ca0fc3$a85bfa80$f913ef80$@org>
Comments below about fixes refer to the editor's draft at

> From: Matitiahu Allouche [mailto:matial@il.ibm.com]
> Sent: 26 July 2009 13:43
> To: Richard Ishida
> Cc: www-international@w3.org
> Subject: RE: Updated Working Draft: Best Practices for Authoring HTML:
> Handling Right-to-left Scripts
> This the continuation of my comments, based on the latest version as
> figuring in Richard's note from July 24.
> 10 bis) In section 3.2, "(x and E)" => "(x and F)"


> 13 bis) In section 5, Best Practice 3, Discussion: "browser chrome" is not
> a
> widely understood term, especially for Internet Explorer users.
> I suggest "browser appearance" or "browser user interface".

Changed to:
"Note, however, the effect of this on the user interface of some browsers
(the 'browser chrome') as described..."

(Note that it actually affects Opera too.)

> 22 bis) In the sentence after the note following Example 13, "you are
> probably more likely to encounter" => "you are more likely to encounter"
> "Probably" and "likely" express the same idea and are semantically
> redundant.


> 27) In the note within the "How to" of Best Practice 11, "RML" => "RLM"


> 28) In the sentence after the note above, starting with "On the other
> hand", "ie." => "e.g." ?
> If "ie." is used, the following list must be complete. If there are other
> cases which are not mentioned, "e.g." (== for example) should be used.


> 29) In Example 20,
> "<p>The title is <span dir="rtl" lang="he">... W3C </span> in Hebrew.</p>"
> => ("says" instead of "is")
> "<p>The title says <span dir="rtl" lang="he">... W3C </span> in
> Hebrew.</p>"




 I realised also that the explanation in section 1.2.1 is incorrect.  I have

"This version uses uppercase translations to represent the right-to-left
text, while all left-to-right text is lowercased. "


"This version uses uppercase translations to represent the Arabic or Hebrew
characters, while all Latin text is lowercased. "

> 30) In paragraph "Using control characters" following Example 23, the code
> points for RLO and LRO are swapped.


> 31) In the note for "Setting up a right-to-left page", IE v6-8, we find: "
> In Internet Explorer, applying a right-to-left direction in the html or
> body tag will affect the user interface, too. If the page has a scroll
> bar, it will appear on the left side of the window. JavaScript alert boxes
> will be mirror imaged."
> As far as I remember, this is true for dir applied to the HTML tag, not
> for the BODY tag, at least up to IE v7.  Please check.

The scroll bar switching is true for dir on both html and body, but the
dialog box thing only works for dir on html.  See the tests and results at 
http://www.w3.org/International/tests/list-html-css#chromebidi and

I need to rewrite this text.  I'll do that tomorrow.

FWIW, the results are consistent across IE6-8.  I also added information
earlier today about scrollbar switching and Opera.

> If I am right, then "they may prefer to not declare the document
> directionality on the html or body tag" => "they may prefer to not declare
> the document directionality on the html tag."
> If I am correct, there is no need for a div element immediately inside the
> BODY tag, it is enough to specify dir on the BODY tag.
> I have no experience with IE v8.  If the results are different for IE v8,
> then I suggest to add that the proposed solution (div within Body) is more
> than needed for IE versions until v7 but provides a unified solution for
> all IE versions including v8.
> 23) The links for "Check for browser-specific note" and "Get more
> information" uniformly point to the same locations, whatever the content
> of the source paragraph.  Either add relevant content in the notes and the
> info, or remove the links.

This is a tricky one.  I really wanted to use AJAX to put links there only
when there was information available in the other document, and to show for
which browsers there was information, but the W3C didn't want to use dynamic
features in a WG Note.  The idea is that the information in the document
pointed to can grow and develop over time, in a way that the WG Note cannot
easily do.  So I put links in that may eventually go somewhere useful at
some point.  It's not a great solution, but it's the best I could come up
with.  Having said that, I'll have another think about it - I had some
thoughts on the topic earlier today too.

> This is my final (at least I expect so) contribution to the review of this
> document.

Mati, this is *extremely* helpful.  Thank you very much for going through
the text in such detail, and please accept my apologies for the many

All the best,

> Shalom (Regards),  Mati
>            Bidi Architect
>            Globalization Center Of Competency - Bidirectional Scripts
>            IBM Israel
>            Phone: +972 2 5888802    Fax: +972 2 5870333    Mobile: +972 52
> 2554160
Received on Tuesday, 28 July 2009 20:40:43 UTC

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