- From: Mark Davis <mark.davis@icu-project.org>
- Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 08:47:38 -0800
- To: Misha Wolf <Misha.Wolf@reuters.com>
- CC: newsml-2@yahoogroups.com, www-international@w3.org
I don't know what the scope of the source document is, but this seems like a case of over-engineering, unless they are simply meant as "possible examples". Most of these items would be useful only in extremely specialized applications. For the vast majority of applications, a simple <name>Dr. Jonas T. Sulk III</name>field suffices, without trying to break it up into pieces. Delving into surname, baptismal names, Mob nicknames (Misha "Lefty" Wolf), Satanic-ritual aliases, and the like become hugely complicated and difficult to manage. Beyond the simple name, the other most useful one we've found is the <sortby>Sulk, Jonas T.</sortby>. The discussion of pronunciation seems somewhat muddled by not recognizing that there are at least a couple of different goals. For most commercial uses, a more typical, and more useful, expression would be what people actually say their name sounds like. What people usually use in practice depends on their source language; a very large number of people are unfamiliar with IPA. For example, my wife's name is "Gundelfinger"; she is very used to writing "sounds like gun-Dell-finger". For a text-to-speech application, on the other hand, IPA would be clearly more suitable. Mark Misha Wolf wrote: > [This mail forms part of a thread on how to represent people's > names in NewsML 2. To join the newsml-2 list, go to > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newsml-2/ > The NewsML 2 specs etc are available at: > http://www.iptc.org/NAR/1.0/] > > In reponse to my previous mail, I received a number of comments > along the lines of "I don't have a baptismal name". For folks > unfamiliar with the principles of NewsML 2, I'll briefly say that > syntax such as: > > <name scope="scp:baptismal">Norma Jeane Baker</name> > > means that the string "Norma Jeane Baker" is an instance of what > NewsML 2 might call a "name", that this name has what NewsML 2 might > call a "scope" and that this scope has a value "scp:baptismal", > which expands to (eg): > > http://www.some.uri#baptismal > > where one might find a definition of "Baptismal name". > > It does *not* mean: > - that everyone has a baptismal name > - that the members of the NewsML 2 Architecture WP have baptismal > names > - that the main use of NewsML 2 will be to exchange news about > people who have baptismal names > - that the Moon is made of green cheese > > Every NewsML 2 producer is free to define their own terms or to > adopt terms defined by anyone else. For example; > > <name>Theodor Herzl</name> > <name scope="scp:hebrew">Binyamin Ze'ev Herzl</name> > > where "scp:hebrew" expands to (eg): > > http://www.some.uri#hebrew > > or: > > <name scope="foo:hebrew">Binyamin Ze'ev Herzl</name> > > where "foo:hebrew" expands to (eg): > > http://www.someother.uri#hebrew > > The other main class of comments concerned xml:lang. Yes, the > proposed "name" element will accept xml:lang. > > I'll now return to the discussion of names. I've pretty much left > parts 1 and 2 the same, but have substantially changed parts 3 and 4. > > I see four orthogonal axes (which can be combined as required): > part, scope, formality, purpose. > > > 1. Part of name (attribute name "part") > --------------------------------------- > > Example values are: pt:given, pt:family, pt:full, pt:usual. > > Default value: If @part is omitted, pt:usual is assumed. > > An example is: > > <name>Pablo Picasso</name> > <name part="pt:given">Pablo</name> > <name part="pt:family">Picasso</name> > <name part="pt:full">Pablo Diego José Santiago Francisco de Paula > Juan Nepomuceno Crispín Crispiniano de los Remedios Cipriano de > la Santísima Trinidad Ruiz Picasso</name> > > > 2. Social scope of name (attribute name "scope" or "role") > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > Example values are: scp:original, scp:baptismal, scp:hebrew, > scp: married, scp:usual. > > Default value: If @scope is omitted, scp:usual is assumed. > > Examples are: > > <name>Marilyn Monroe</name> > <name scope="scp:original">Norma Jeane Mortenson</name> > <name scope="scp:baptismal">Norma Jeane Baker</name> > <name scope="scp:married">Norma Jeane Dougherty</name> > <name scope="scp:work scp:usual">Marilyn Monroe</name> > > or: > > <name>Theodor Herzl</name> > <name scope="scp:hebrew">Binyamin Ze'ev Herzl</name> > > > 3. Formality of style (attribute name "style" or "form") > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Example values are: st:formal, st:informal. > > There is no default value. > > Examples are: > > <name style="st:formal">Zinédine Zidane</name> > <name style="st:informal">Zizou</name> > > <name style="st:formal">Michael Wolf</name> > <name style="st:informal">Misha Wolf</name> > > There are more complex cases, which pose the question of how a > nickname relates to the formality axis. Is a nickname the most > informal name? Consider: > > <name>John Fitzgerald Kennedy</name> > <name>John F. Kennedy</name> > <name>Jack Kennedy</name> > <name>JFK</name> > > The first is clearly the most formal. The second one is the second > most formal. I don't know which is more/less formal: the third or > the fourth? In any event, this suggests that formal-or-informal > may not be sufficient, as there are levels of (in)formality. > > This is a similar case: > > <name>George Walker Bush</name> > <name>George W. Bush</name> > <name>Dubya</name> > <name>W</name> > > [See http://www.georgewbushstore.com/200-8001.htm] > > though here the third and fourth names are probably equally informal. > > > 4. Purpose (attribute name "purpose") > ------------------------------------- > > Example values are: prp:pronounce, prp:sort. > > Examples are: > > <name purpose="prp:sort">Zidane, Zinédine</name> > > <name purpose="prp:pronounce" xml:lang="en">Pútin</name> > > Misha > > > To find out more about Reuters visit www.about.reuters.com > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Reuters Ltd. > > > > >
Received on Friday, 24 February 2006 16:48:37 UTC