- From: Daniel Hiester <alatus@earthlink.net>
- Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:00:41 -0800
- To: "www-html" <www-html@w3.org>
snippet: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > just don't. I've said it before: Currently, in the big two, if there is a > table (which there ALWAYS is), which sets the layout of the page, then the > page will not be displayed until the final </table> is recieved. Now, > while [DJW:] For this to be true, the browser has to be NS4, or the author has to be ignorant. The latter is normally the case. With CSS compliant browsers, you can set a style on the table then use COL elements to enable incremental rendering. Column widths are almost always known for the presentational tables that are "always present". You can also specify widths and heights on images to allow correct size place holders to be displayed. Murray Wrote: Most html pages are under 15k while images can easily be larger than that. Also the HTML file must be partially received before the first image request is even dipatched, let alone responed to. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I appologize for over generalizing. Most of the sites I frequent, alas, are designed in just the way both of you condemn. The most blatent example that I can think of is mp3.com, and even worse, is the entire gamespy network ( planet_insertvideogamehere_.com, whose html files are usually around the area of 50-75k, not including any of the images they use). Some sites have simply too much information that they have to structure (which is what html is for, correct?). Unfortunately, I don't visit a huge variety of sites, but from the sites I do visit, I've gotten into the mindset that virtually everyone in the professional web design field codes their html in the "uber-table" fashion, as though it were a de-facto standard. To respond to murray: Now I understand by what you mean, although I don't think it's fair to call an image a "client-side include" file. I'm thinking of "csi files" as pertains to just a means of replacing the functionality of ssi, for those who do not have ssi as an option. A site like cnn.com certainly has some form of ssi available to them as an option. Chances are, they do not use ssi on their javascript modules, and css files, so that browsers can cache those, instead of having to download all of that text at each page. However, someone building a site on a server without ssi could not possibly have as much content to present (or information to structure) as a site like cnn.com, and would logically not use as many different files as something like cnn.com (or microsoft.com, or netscape.com, and all the rest) ::maximum email length met:: Daniel
Received on Tuesday, 6 February 2001 14:54:53 UTC