- From: Michigan <jjacalne@damien.edu>
- Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 09:04:38 -1000
- To: www-html@w3.org
- Cc: www-html-d-request@w3.org
>------------------------------ >Content-Type: text/plain > >www-html-d Digest Volume 96 : Issue 24 > >Today's Topics: > Re: Really Quick Guide to Good HTML > Re: Really Quick Guide to Good HTML > Re: Really Quick Guide to Good HTML > searching for a Web editor > Re: searching for a Web editor > Re: Really Quick Guide to Good HTML > HTML as help (was Re: Really Quick Guide to Good HTML) > Re: searching for a Web editor > Recommended Behavior for Image-Incapable User Agents ... > Re: HTML as help (was Re: Really Quick Guide to Good HTML) > comments (Re: Really Quick Guide to Good HTML) > ENCTYPE="multipart/mixed" > Re: comments (Re: Really Quick Guide to Good HTML) > Re: HTML as help (was Re: Really Quick Guide to Good HTML) > Re: comments (Re: Really Quick Guide to Good HTML) > Re: HTML as help (was Re: Really Quick Guide to Good HTML) > Re: comments (Re: Really Quick Guide to Good HTML) > Re: comments (Re: Really Quick Guide to Good HTML) > Re: comments (Re: Really Quick Guide to Good HTML) > >------------------------------ >Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 19:40:41 -0500 >From: Paul Prescod <papresco@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> >To: Charles Peyton Taylor <CTaylor@wposmtp.nps.navy.mil> >Cc: www-html@w3.org >Subject: Re: Really Quick Guide to Good HTML >Message-Id: <199602210040.TAA07479@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >content-length: 905 > >At 03:42 PM 2/20/96 -0800, Charles Peyton Taylor wrote: >>A question, though: I used to think that the <html></html> >>tags were there to let the browser software know that >>the document was in HTML format. But if that's so, then >>why is it defined as a MIME type on the server? > >HTML documents can be processed in situations that are unrelated to server >MIME types. For instance, some operating systems use HTML as the standard >online help format. Some people use HTML files on CD-ROMs. The issue of >figuring out the data type of an HTML file is a little more involved than >I've made it sound, because there is another, more explicit ways of >indicating the HTML format (called a doctype) and other, implicit mechanisms >like file attributes and extensions. It is important to realize that HTML >can be used outside of an HTTP transaction and must be designed as a >standalone language. > > Paul Prescod > >------------------------------ >Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 20:02:56 -0500 (EST) >From: Foteos Macrides <MACRIDES@sci.wfbr.edu> >To: papresco@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca >Cc: www-html@w3.org >Subject: Re: Really Quick Guide to Good HTML >Message-Id: <01I1G5DMIY4M00163N@SCI.WFBR.EDU> >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >content-length: 1604 > >Paul Prescod <papresco@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote: >>At 03:42 PM 2/20/96 -0800, Charles Peyton Taylor wrote: >>>A question, though: I used to think that the <html></html> >>>tags were there to let the browser software know that >>>the document was in HTML format. But if that's so, then >>>why is it defined as a MIME type on the server? >> >>HTML documents can be processed in situations that are unrelated to server >>MIME types. For instance, some operating systems use HTML as the standard >>online help format. Some people use HTML files on CD-ROMs. The issue of >>figuring out the data type of an HTML file is a little more involved than >>I've made it sound, because there is another, more explicit ways of >>indicating the HTML format (called a doctype) and other, implicit mechanisms >>like file attributes and extensions. It is important to realize that HTML >>can be used outside of an HTTP transaction and must be designed as a >>standalone language. > > Back in the good ole days, when what it now referred to as >HTTP/0.9 was just HTTP, clients were shareware or freeware, not >market forces, and the object was content-rich, platform-independent >*information* sharing, the protocol did not use MIME headers, and the ><HTML> tag at the top indicated that the document was html, not plain >text. > Fote > >========================================================================= > Foteos Macrides Worcester Foundation for Biomedical Research > MACRIDES@SCI.WFBR.EDU 222 Maple Avenue, Shrewsbury, MA 01545 >========================================================================= > >------------------------------ >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 01:15:15 +0000 (GMT) >From: lilley <lilley@afs.mcc.ac.uk> >To: CTaylor@wposmtp.nps.navy.mil (Charles Peyton Taylor) >Cc: www-html@w3.org >Subject: Re: Really Quick Guide to Good HTML >Message-Id: <28995.9602210115@afs.mcc.ac.uk> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Content-Length: 6284 > >> >> I've written a basic guide to html, meant for the users >> here at NPS (or anyone else who cares to browse) and it >> occured to me that a learned opinion might be helpful. >> I would appreciate it if you would browse by: >> >> http://www.nps.navy.mil/internal/tutorial/q_htmlguide.html > >A couple of initial comments: > >1) Excellent idea. HTML in 10 minutes. Makes those books in the store >"HTML in a week" seem a little, well, padded? > >2) "HTML ... is really just ASCII text with extra codes > thrown to better identify the content of the document." > >Yes, but please avoid saying ASCII. There is no need for it, and it >is misleading. I appreciate that your primary audience is American, but >then a not inconsiderable percentage of Americans speak Spanish and no >doubt appreciate being able to put those cedillas into their text. > >In the context of your ten-minute guide I suggest replacing "ASCII text" >with "plain text". > >2) "However, HTML is not a WYSIWYG (what-you-see-is-what-you-get) > format. Each web browser may display your document slightly > differently, and most let the reader customize how documents are > displayed." > >Rather than put that as the end, where it sounds like admitting a problem, >try putting it at the start of the introduction and make it into a benefit. >Try this: > > HTML is not a WYSIWYG (what-you-see-is-what-you-get) format. It does > not specify what font will be used or how a page is layed out. > Instead it just identifies sections of text as headings, lists, and > so on. This makes HTML very easy to write. HTML is just plain text > with extra codes to identify the content of the document. > > Remember, though, that each web browser will display your document > slightly differently, and most let the reader customize how documents > are displayed. > >3) You confuse tags and elements. It is probably useful to explain what >they are. HTML is made up of elements. An element can consist of either a >single tag, like this: > ><hr> > >or a paired start tag and end tag with some stuff in the middle. > ><h1>An important heading</h1> > >The stuff in the middle can itself contain nested elements. > >Then go on to explain about the angle brackets. this is easier to do *after* >the reader has seen a couple of examples, wheras you do it before they have >seen them- so they have to try and imaginge what this will look like. > >Introducing the idea of "nesting elements", rather than "codes inserted into >the document", gives people a better idea, I think, of why they cannot >do this: > ><a href="foo><h1>stuff</a></h1> > >4) "Every document should have a title." > >Since your guide is about writing good HTML, rather than stuff that will >probably work, I suggest altering this to > > Every document must have a title. > >which is what the HTML2.0 spec says. You can back this up in one sentence >by saying that indexing engines use this information, so leaving it out >could mean people don't find your documents. > >An ounce of self-interest is worth a pound of "do this to conform to >the standard" ;-) > >The other points you make about titles are good. > >5) standard wrapper: > >html can be missed out in all html 2.0 documents. Your first sentence is >not strictly true, and "this can vary" just introduces uncertainty. > >I suggest you just say that the entire html document is a single element >and the start and end tags are <html> </html>, and leave it at that. Save >your energy for getting them to insert <head> and </head> which is much >more important - and will become increasingly important with later >revisions of HTML. > >I suggest that you introduce these by saying that the head element contains >information about the document, which is not displayed as part of the >document, wheras the body contains the document itself. > >6) </p> can always be omitted. Again, if you introduce elements early this >becomes easy. > > To put text into paragraphs, use paragraph elements: > > <p>This is a pagagraph</p> > > In practice the closing </p> can always be omitted. > >The main thing is to ensure they understand paragraphs are elements, rather >than believing that paragraph tags introduce line breaks (which your text >does sort of imply) and to avoid the idea that <p> separates paragraphs, >rather than starting them. > >I find it handy to have an example: > ><h1>Big Heading</h1><p>A paragraph</p> > >This shows them several things > >- yes you put a p right after the end of the previous element, to *start* > a paragraph >- the line breaks and spacing in the HTL source are irrelevant > >I found your text on "extra lines" gave the wrong impression here. >Rather than concentrate on the visual effect, I suggest you concentrate >on the semantics. Use an address or something to illustrate br, and say >this is all one paragraph. > >7) Headings > >Good, but say "H2-H6 are the other headings, >each being consecutively less important than the first." > >8) URL > >this is used way before being defined. People who are going to write >HTML are probablt used to URLs from browsing, heck even from adverts. >I suggest you put the descripotion of URLs into a "sidebar" - another >document. This stops it interrupting the flow of text and means people >can read that descriptionor not, as they need to. > >"Be aware that anchors can be placed within paragraphs ..." >This section will also benefit from introducing elements early on. > > >In general your 10 minute guide is great and just what is needed. I would >certainly recommend it over the NCSA beginners guide, which is well past >it's sell-by date. I hope you find my comments and suggestions helpful. > > > >-- >Chris Lilley, Technical Author and JISC representative to W3C >+-------------------------------------------------------------------+ >| Manchester and North Training & Education Centre ( MAN T&EC ) | >+-------------------------------------------------------------------+ >| Computer Graphics Unit, Email: Chris.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk | >| Manchester Computing Centre, Voice: +44 161 275 6045 | >| Oxford Road, Manchester, UK. Fax: +44 161 275 6040 | >| M13 9PL BioMOO: ChrisL | >| Timezone: UTC URI: http://info.mcc.ac.uk/CGU/staff/lilley/ | >+-------------------------------------------------------------------+ > >------------------------------ >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 07:27:05 >From: ballonyi@irf.hu >To: www-html@w3.org >Subject: searching for a Web editor >Message-Id: <199602210618.HAA15556@ind.eunet.hu> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit >content-length: 488 > >I'm searching for a program which help me in editing Web pages. >There's a shareware one on the net? > >Regards, > Ballonyi Gyula > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >IRF Softwarehouse Inc. Tel/FAX: +(361)-266-78-68 >HUNGARY, 1056-Budapest Email: Ballonyi@irf.hu >Molnar u. 21 bgy@westel450.hu >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >------------------------------ >Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 22:53:24 -0800 >From: boo@best.com (Walter Ian Kaye) >To: www-html@w3.org >Subject: Re: searching for a Web editor >Message-Id: <v02120d01ad507031055e@[205.149.180.135]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >content-length: 1050 > >At 7:27a 02/21/96, ballonyi@irf.hu wrote: > >>I'm searching for a program which help me in editing Web pages. >>There's a shareware one on the net? > > >There's lots! You didn't mention what platform you are wanting it for, but >there are editors for several platforms. Search your favorite archive -- >for Mac users there is an /html directory under /text at Info-Mac sites, >for example. > >And synchronicity... I just got an idea today for writing one in MS Word >6.0. I know there is already Internet Assistant, but people say it's slow. >The idea I got today, when implemented, will be super fast (and >extensible). Heh, and it was just a few days ago I was telling someone that >I'd probably never use Word for HTML! Funny how ya just never know... <g> > >-Walter > >__________________________________________________________________________ > Walter Ian Kaye <boo@best.com> Programmer - Excel, AppleScript, > Mountain View, CA ProTERM, FoxPro, HTML > http://www.natural-innovations.com/ Musician - Guitarist, Songwriter > >------------------------------ >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 08:55:28 +0100 >From: mau@beatles.cselt.stet.it (Maurizio Codogno) >To: www-html@w3.org >Subject: Re: Really Quick Guide to Good HTML >Message-Id: <9602210755.AA04921@beatles.cselt.stet.it> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Content-Md5: bAsB3DL6O7Z+T0y2G2rtwQ== >content-length: 770 > >lilley answered Charles Peyton Taylor: > >% > A question, though: I used to think that the <html></html> >% > tags were there to let the browser software know that >% > the document was in HTML format. But if that's so, then >% > why is it defined as a MIME type on the server? >% >% The html start and end tags are used to bracket the document instance. SGML >% assumes a hierarchical model, and the html element (consisting of >% <html>stuff</html>) is at the top of the tree. > >Just out of curiosity - is there some browser which actually stops >processing if it finds a </html> tag? When I first approached HTML, I >thought it would have been a nice way to add information at the end >of a document without let them be displayed. But this seems not to be >the case. > >..mau. > >------------------------------ >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 00:10:35 -0800 >From: boo@best.com (Walter Ian Kaye) >To: www-html@w3.org >Subject: HTML as help (was Re: Really Quick Guide to Good HTML) >Message-Id: <v02120d03ad507c0bce2a@[205.149.180.135]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >content-length: 453 > >At 7:40p 02/20/96, Paul Prescod wrote: > >>some operating systems use HTML as the standard online help format. > > >Hmm, very interesting. Which OS's are those? > >__________________________________________________________________________ > Walter Ian Kaye <boo@best.com> Programmer - Excel, AppleScript, > Mountain View, CA ProTERM, FoxPro, HTML > http://www.natural-innovations.com/ Musician - Guitarist, Songwriter > >------------------------------ >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 06:24:40 -0500 >From: Walt Houser <houser@cpcug.org> >To: ballonyi@irf.hu >Cc: www-html@w3.org >Subject: Re: searching for a Web editor >Message-Id: <199602211124.GAA20610@cpcug.org> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >content-length: 1054 > >Scott Mohnkern supports a list of Web Editors at <A >HREF="http://cpcug.org:80//user/mohnkern/htmled.html">Mohnkern's List of
Received on Thursday, 22 February 1996 14:04:18 UTC