RE: xforms:copy binding query

Hi Aaron,

The example in 2.2 shows a select1, which is not applicable to this 
problem because of course the select1 blows away the old selection when 
making a new one.  Otherwise it wouldn't be selecting one.

The statement in 8.1.1 (and hence 10.1.9) is a statement that says how the 
string value formulated by the control is to be committed to instance 
data, not how the control formulates the new string to commit the instance 
data, so again that part of the spec is also not applicable to the issue 
at hand. 

The string value computed by a *select* control should not amend the 
string other than to add the value associated with an item (if selecting) 
or remove the value associated with an item (if deselecting). 

The behavior of copy should follow suite.

Cheers,
John M. Boyer, Ph.D.
STSM: Lotus Forms Architect and Researcher
Chair, W3C Forms Working Group
Workplace, Portal and Collaboration Software
IBM Victoria Software Lab
E-Mail: boyerj@ca.ibm.com 

Blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/JohnBoyer





Aaron Reed <aaronr@us.ibm.com> 
Sent by: www-forms-request@w3.org
10/23/2007 04:22 PM

To
John Boyer/CanWest/IBM@IBMCA
cc
"Robert Walpole" <robert.walpole@devon.gov.uk>, www-forms@w3.org, 
www-forms-request@w3.org
Subject
RE: xforms:copy binding query






Hey John,

Took me a while, but I finally found what I was looking for in the 1.0 
spec. I assume all of this stuff is still in the 1.1 spec, but the section 
numbers may have changed.

The first thing I found in the spec was the example in 2.2 "An initial 
value ("cc") for the form control is provided through the instance data, 
in this case an attribute method. In the submitted XML, this initial value 
will be replaced by the user input, if the user changes the form control 
displaying that data. "

Section 8.1.1 says, "Form controls that write simpleContent to instance 
data must do so exactly as defined by the XForms Action 10.1.9 The 
setvalue Element " Since you agree that xf:value and xf:copy should behave 
the same, then this applies to our select example.

Section 10.1.9 for xf:setvalue it says, "Element nodes: If the element has 
any child text nodes, the first text node is replaced with one 
corresponding to the new value. If no child text nodes are present, a text 
node is created, corresponding to the new value, and appended as the first 
child node. "

So the 'why' you were looking for is because we gotsto. :-)

--Aaron
IBM Corporation
Internal Zip: 9022D016 
11501 Burnet Road
Austin, TX 78758
(512)838-9948
inet: aaronr@us.ibm.com
_
(} @
|= Volleyball Rules!!!
/\


John Boyer <boyerj@ca.ibm.com>


John Boyer <boyerj@ca.ibm.com> 
10/23/2007 06:06 PM



To

Aaron Reed/Austin/IBM@IBMUS

cc

"Robert Walpole" <robert.walpole@devon.gov.uk>, www-forms@w3.org, 
www-forms-request@w3.org

Subject

RE: xforms:copy binding query







>But if you select a value from the second select (none of whose values 
appear in the first select), ALL of the previous values under that bound 
node will disappear in favor of the items selected in this second select. 

Hmm. Why? 

If you add a new value to a select, and the other values in the referenced 
node DO match other items in the same select, then choosing one item would 
not erase the others. Why would choosing an item in a select ever replace 
any other selections that have been made, whether or not those other 
selections match items in the select? 

I agree with value and copy behaving the same way, of course. 

John M. Boyer, Ph.D.
STSM: Lotus Forms Architect and Researcher
Chair, W3C Forms Working Group
Workplace, Portal and Collaboration Software
IBM Victoria Software Lab
E-Mail: boyerj@ca.ibm.com 

Blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/JohnBoyer



Aaron Reed <aaronr@us.ibm.com> 
Sent by: www-forms-request@w3.org 
10/23/2007 03:59 PM 


To
John Boyer/CanWest/IBM@IBMCA 
cc
"Robert Walpole" <robert.walpole@devon.gov.uk>, www-forms@w3.org, 
www-forms-request@w3.org 
Subject
RE: xforms:copy binding query








Hey John,

Selecting an item that contains a xf:copy behaves, in my experience (and 
certainly in Mozilla), just like selecting an item that contains a 
xf:value except that elements can be placed under the bound node instead 
of just text. So let's forget xf:copy for now. Let's just look at two 
xf:selects that bind to the same node, each with itemsets that are bound 
to different nodes such that no value from one select appears in the 
other. If you select an item from the first select, that value will be 
copied into the bound node. Any number of items from that select can be 
selected, and their values will be placed under the bound node, separated 
by spaces. But if you select a value from the second select (none of whose 
values appear in the first select), ALL of the previous values under that 
bound node will disappear in favor of the items selected in this second 
select.

I don't see any reason that copy should behave any differently.

--Aaron
IBM Corporation
Internal Zip: 9022D016 
11501 Burnet Road
Austin, TX 78758
(512)838-9948
inet: aaronr@us.ibm.com
_
(} @
|= Volleyball Rules!!!
/\


John Boyer <boyerj@ca.ibm.com>
John Boyer <boyerj@ca.ibm.com> 
10/23/2007 04:58 PM 




To

"Robert Walpole" <robert.walpole@devon.gov.uk> 


cc

Aaron Reed/Austin/IBM@IBMUS, www-forms@w3.org, www-forms-request@w3.org 


Subject

RE: xforms:copy binding query








Hi Robert, 

What you described makes perfect sense, and so the comments I gave were 
indeed applicable. 

My comments are based on what XForms, the spec, says and/or implies to me 
rather than on what has happened in particular implementations. 

The xforms select and select1 controls are supposed to show you those 
items that are selected based on matching the content referenced by value 
or copy. 

You have two different controls with different itemsets. As items are 
selected via select A, nodes will be copied to the node referenced by A 
(metadata in your example). Then you have select B referencing the same 
node, but with an itemset whose items do not match any of the content you 
selected with A. 

As a result, select B is not able to fully represent the value of the 
referenced node (metadata). Due to that fact, the XForms processor is 
supposed to dispatch an out of range event to select B. But it is a 
notification event that you don't have to handle. Nothing in the spec says 
"dispatch out of range and then stop looking for matching content", but it 
is conceivable that some implementations may have interpreted this 
condition as more of an error than a notification. 

In fact, I believe there was an XForms 1.1 last call comment asking for 
further clarification on this point. Erik Bruchez is the point man on 
writing the clarification, but I believe that the information I am 
providing here is consistent with how that "clarification" will be 
written. 

Certainly if you are using chiba and have the ability to change it, then 
by all means please make the select controls properly handle "noise" data 
in their referenced nodes by dispatching the out of range event and 
otherwise showing selections based on nodes that do match. 

Thanks, 
John M. Boyer, Ph.D.
STSM: Lotus Forms Architect and Researcher
Chair, W3C Forms Working Group
Workplace, Portal and Collaboration Software
IBM Victoria Software Lab
E-Mail: boyerj@ca.ibm.com 

Blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/JohnBoyer

"Robert Walpole" <robert.walpole@devon.gov.uk> 
Sent by: www-forms-request@w3.org 
10/23/2007 01:59 PM 


To
John Boyer/CanWest/IBM@IBMCA 
cc
"Aaron Reed" <aaronr@us.ibm.com>, <www-forms@w3.org>, 
<www-forms-request@w3.org> 
Subject
RE: xforms:copy binding query











Hi John, 
Thanks for your reply. To avoid any further confusion I will stick to the 
real world example of what I am trying to do. 
Basically, I have a target XML node which is a <metadata/> element. On my 
form I want to have 2 select controls. One with accessibility options and 
one with clientgroup options. Each of these controls is populated with a 
different itemset. When the user selects options from the controls I want 
the selected items to be placed in the same metadata target node. 
In other words, if the user selects 2 options from the accessibiliy list 
and 2 options from the clientgroup list I want the resulting XML to look 
like something like this. 
<metadata> 
<accessibility>1</accessibility> 
<accessibility>2</accessibility> 
<clientgroup>a</clientgroup> 
<clientgroup>b</clientgroup> 
</metadata> 
Previously I have attempted to handle this using xforms:select1 within an 
xforms:repeat and an associated trigger to add additional form controls 
and therefore multiple elements of the same name. However the more complex 
the data model the more cumbersome this becomes and so I am trying to use 
xforms:copy as a more elegant solution. The problem I am having with this 
is that the bindings to the target node appear to be mutually exclusive 
and in the implementation I am using (Chiba) I am physically unable to 
select items from both lists. I can select multiple items in one list and 
then as soon as I start selecting items in the second list the items in 
the first list are deselected and do not show in the submitted data. 
I am not sure what you mean by an "out of range event". I assume that this 
is something handled by the implementation? In any event a colleague of 
mine has added the xforms:copy functionality to Chiba so it is possible we 
may be able to modify the behaviour, if appropriate. 
It may be that the only answer is to change my model so that each select 
control has a different target node. The problem with this is that I am 
working with a existing dataset and this kind of restructuring is not 
desirable. 
Thanks again.
Rob Walpole 
Devon Portal Developer 
Email robert.walpole@devon.gov.uk 
Web http://www.devonline.gov.uk 
-----Original Message----- 
From: John Boyer [mailto:boyerj@ca.ibm.com] 
Sent: 23 October 2007 15:31 
To: Robert Walpole 
Cc: Aaron Reed; www-forms@w3.org; www-forms-request@w3.org 
Subject: RE: xforms:copy binding query 
Hi Robert, 
It's not clear enough from your first message what you are actually trying 
to do. This latest post involving use of insert surely seems to be going 
in the wrong direction, though, as the point of copy is that you don't 
need generalized insertion capabilities. 
I understood that you wanted two different controls to be able to 
contribute to a test data result. 
OK, so that means the ref of the two controls points at the same node 
"/test/data" 
But what is the itemset nodeset supposed to point at in the two different 
controls? 
Are you thinking to have the two itemsets be different? 
If so, I think it is only slightly problematic. However, it should be 
possible to make it work, and in particular to do so without use of 
insert, but there will be a minor hiccup in the fact that each of the 
select controls will receive out of range error events for the subtrees 
placed in "/test/data" that do not correspond to items in the union of the 
item sets but not the complement of their intersection. 
In other words, if you have an item generated by control S1 but not S2, 
and you select that item, the subtree will be copied into the node 
referenced by S1, but S2 should then receive an out of range event because 
it has no item to match that copied node. But this is a notification 
event, which could be ignored or cancelled. 
Finally, perhaps let us know what you really want to do at a higher level, 
since a solution other than having two selects with non-identical item 
sets might present itself. But if it is exactly what you need, it should 
in principle work, modulo the out of range notifications. 
Cheers, 
John M. Boyer, Ph.D. 
STSM: Lotus Forms Architect and Researcher 
Chair, W3C Forms Working Group 
Workplace, Portal and Collaboration Software 
IBM Victoria Software Lab 
E-Mail: boyerj@ca.ibm.com 
Blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/JohnBoyer 
"Robert Walpole" <robert.walpole@devon..gov.uk> 
Sent by: www-forms-request@w3.org 
10/23/2007 04:01 AM To"Aaron Reed" <aaronr@us.ibm.com>, <www-forms@w3.org> 

cc 
SubjectRE: xforms:copy binding query 


Hi Aaron, 
Thanks for your reply. I understand what you are saying about the 
bindings although this does seem a bit of a limitation. 
I am interested in your suggestion of using the xforms-select event but 
I am struggling to see how this would work. 
At present I am just trying to get it to work with one select control 
and I have something like the following: 
<xforms:model> 
<xforms:instance> 
<communitygroup> 
<data/> 
<metadata/> 
</communitygroup> 
</xforms:instance> 
<xforms:bind id="data" nodeset="/communitygroup/data"/> 
<xforms:bind id="metadata" nodeset="/communitygroup/metadata"/> 
<xforms:instance id="accessibility-instance" 
src="accessibility.xml"/> 
</xforms:model> 
<xforms:select bind="data"> 
<xforms:label>Metadata</xforms:label> 
<xforms:itemset 
nodeset="instance('accessibility-instance')/accesstype"> 
<xforms:label ref="accessterm"/> 
<xforms:copy ref="accessibility"/> 
<xforms:action ev:event="xforms-select"> 
<xforms:insert bind="metadata" at="last()" 
position="after"/> 
<xforms:setvalue ref="."/> 
</xforms:action> 
</xforms:itemset> 
</xforms:select> 
However this produces some pretty mangled results and I'm not at all 
sure what the bindings should really look like in this case. 
Any pointers you (or anyone else) can offer would be much appreciated. 
P.S. accessibility.xml attached in case required. 
Many Thanks 
Rob Walpole 
Devon Portal Developer 
Email robert.walpole@devon.gov.uk 
Web http://www.devonline.gov.uk 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: www-forms-request@w3.org 
> [mailto:www-forms-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Reed 
> Sent: 19 October 2007 21:53 
> To: www-forms@w3.org 
> Subject: Re: xforms:copy binding query 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Rob, 
> 
> You can certainly bind two selects/select1s to the same node, 
> but when 
> you select items in a select/select1, it will replace the values 
> underneath it. The only way you could mix and mingle them 
> are if both 
> selects had the same items and you use ctrl+<click> when 
> selecting items 
> (assuming your process uses a html:select type of control) but then 
> there isn't much reason to have both. You could always try 
> to manage it 
> yourself with binding the two selects to different nodes and then 
> handling the xforms-select and xforms-deselect events and 
> inserting/deleting the nodes under the 'real' target node yourself... 
> 
> --Aaron 
> 
> Robert Walpole wrote: 
> > Hi, 
> > 
> > I am seeking some clarification about how the XForms copy element 
> > (http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-xforms11-20070222/#ui-adv-copy) should 
> > work. 
> > 
> > My question is whether it should be possible to use xforms:copy on 
> > different xforms:select controls to copy different element 
> nodes into 
> > the same target node? 
> > 
> > For example, say I want to have 2 select controls that use use 
> > xforms:copy to populate the data node in the following... 
> > 
> > <test> 
> > <data/> 
> > </test> 
> > 
> > In this case I would bind both of my select controls to the 
> data nodeset 
> > and by selecting two values from both controls I would hope to get 
> > something like the following result... 
> > 
> > <test> 
> > <data> 
> > <abc>123</abc> 
> > <abc>456</abc> 
> > <def>321</def> 
> > <def>654</def> 
> > </data> 
> > </test> 
> > 
> > Is this allowable? It may be that I cannot bind two 
> different controls 
> > to the same target node. Any clarification of this would be much 
> > appreciated. 
> > 
> > Many Thanks 
> > Rob Walpole 
> > Devon Portal Developer 
> > Email robert.walpole@devon.gov.uk 
> > Web http://www.devonline.gov.uk 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> (See attached file: pic16743.gif)