- From: Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
- Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 10:24:25 +0000
- To: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>
- CC: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>, Graham Klyne <GK@ninebynine.org>, Stian Soiland-Reyes <soiland-reyes@cs.manchester.ac.uk>, "www-archive@w3.org" <www-archive@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <EMEW3|e4c3a31f8e545e11cfcea10601d296a1p1QAOS08l.moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|512DDED9>
yes Paul, no problem, I wouldn't wait till the call, I would tell all editors now. Luc On 02/27/2013 10:16 AM, Paul Groth wrote: > I have this as part of the agenda item on the call tomorrow. > > I'd like to decide by then. > > @Luc are you ok with the underscore solution? > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org > <mailto:ivan@w3.org>> wrote: > > Very honestly: I do not have strong opinion here, I can go either > way. But yes, we should decide soon. > > Ivan > > On Feb 27, 2013, at 11:02 , Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl > <mailto:p.t.groth@vu.nl>> wrote: > > > Have we come to a conclusion on this? > > > > We need to decide to let people go through the staging process. > > > > I'm in favor of prov:has_provenance . As this is a purely > syntactic change from what we already had. > > > > cheers > > Paul > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Graham Klyne > <GK@ninebynine.org <mailto:GK@ninebynine.org>> wrote: > > I would favour prov:has_provenance over prov:hasprovenance or > prov:provenance. > > > > I have a concern that prov:provenance reads more like a class > name than a > > property/relation. Also, can we be sure that, in future, > someone won't want to > > define prov:Provenance as a class of some kind? (Because of the > case > > insensitive matching defined by RFC5988, and arguably good > practice generally, > > the capitalized form should be off-limits for future use if > prov:provenance is > > selected. > > > > #g > > -- > > > > > > On 26/02/2013 10:51, Paul Groth wrote: > > > That seems to be the best way then. > > > > > > so prov:hasprovenance or prov:has_provenance > > > > > > ? > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org > <mailto:ivan@w3.org>> wrote: > > > > > >> Do you mean the element that is generated into the header of > the HTML? If > > >> that is the only place it appears, I think we can change that > for the > > >> published PR document before handing it over to the webmaster. > > >> > > >> Ivan > > >> > > >> On Feb 26, 2013, at 10:42 , Luc Moreau > <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk <mailto:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote: > > >> > > >>> It's in the <link> element we added last week. > > >>> > > >>> On 26/02/2013 09:40, Ivan Herman wrote: > > >>>> Graham, > > >>>> > > >>>> I am not sure I understand something. > > >>>> > > >>>> I have looked at the prov-o document, and that document > does not > > >> mention the prov:hasProvenance term. Ie, where does this term > appear in any > > >> of the four Rec-track documents? More importantly, does it > appear, if it > > >> does, in a normative section? > > >>>> > > >>>> Ivan > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On Feb 26, 2013, at 10:30 , Graham Klyne<GK@ninebynine.org > <mailto:GK@ninebynine.org>> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> Hi, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> [I'm keeping this off-list for now, because if Ivan says > there's > > >> nothing we can do at this juncture, I see little point in > opening the issue > > >> for wider discussion. I am cc'ing www-archive so there's a > record of our > > >> discussion.] > > >>>>> > > >>>>> This is a bit embarrassing, given an email I wrote just a > couple of > > >> days ago. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I'm working through comments on PROV-AQ, and Stian has > raised the > > >> following: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> [[ > > >>>>> 32) According to > http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988#section-4.2 > > >>>>> > > >>>>> When extension relation types are compared, they MUST be > compared as > > >>>>> strings (after converting to URIs if serialised in a > different > > >>>>> format, such as a Curie [W3C.CR-curie-20090116]) in a case- > > >>>>> insensitive fashion, character-by-character. Because > of this, all- > > >>>>> lowercase URIs SHOULD be used for extension relations. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Should we not have relation URIs that are all lowercase to > avoid > > >> problems? ie. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Link:<http://acme.example.org/provenance/super-widget>; > > >>>>> rel="http://www.w3.org/ns/prov#hasprovenance" > > >>>>> ]] > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I had completely missed this in RFC5988, and had forgotten > about > > >> Stian's comment when I replied a couple of days ago. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> If we hadn't just been through the incorporation of > provenance links > > >> into the published documents, I'd suggest changing > "hasProvenance" to > > >> "has_provenance" to avoid the problems noted. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> So, what now? I see a few options: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> (a) keep the same name, and simply note that, when used as > a link > > >> relation, prov:hasProvenance is compared case-insensitively. > > >>>>> (b) if it's not too late, change the property name > > >>>>> (c) define a second property that is all lowercase, and > declared > > >> equivalent to the first. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> As far as I can tell, the main consequence of going with > option (a) is > > >> that we MUST NOT in future define a different property/relation > > >> prov:hasprovenance, as under some circumstances covered by > RFC5988, this > > >> would be indistinguishable from prov:hasProvenance. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Given where we now are, my inclination would be to stay > with things as > > >> they are, but add a note reserving the all lower-case versions of > > >> prov:hasProvenance, etc., from future use because of the case > insensitivity > > >> comparison requirement. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> #g > > >>>>> -- > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> ---- > > >>>> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead > > >>>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ > > >>>> mobile: +31-641044153 <tel:%2B31-641044153> > > >>>> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Professor Luc Moreau > > >>> Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487 > <tel:%2B44%2023%208059%204487> > > >>> University of Southampton fax: +44 23 8059 2865 > <tel:%2B44%2023%208059%202865> > > >>> Southampton SO17 1BJ email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk > <mailto:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> > > >>> United Kingdom http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm > <http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/%7Elavm> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> ---- > > >> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead > > >> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ > > >> mobile: +31-641044153 <tel:%2B31-641044153> > > >> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- > > Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl <mailto:p.t.groth@vu.nl>) > > http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/ <http://www.few.vu.nl/%7Epgroth/> > > Assistant Professor > > - Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group | > > Artificial Intelligence Section | Department of Computer Science > > - The Network Institute > > VU University Amsterdam > > > ---- > Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead > Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ > mobile: +31-641044153 <tel:%2B31-641044153> > FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf > > > > > > > > > -- > -- > Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl <mailto:p.t.groth@vu.nl>) > http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/ <http://www.few.vu.nl/%7Epgroth/> > Assistant Professor > - Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group | > Artificial Intelligence Section | Department of Computer Science > - The Network Institute > VU University Amsterdam -- Professor Luc Moreau Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487 University of Southampton fax: +44 23 8059 2865 Southampton SO17 1BJ email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk United Kingdom http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
Received on Wednesday, 27 February 2013 10:43:48 UTC