Re: Fast-track new people to areas www-style need the most help with

(12/01/18 3:12), Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> OK, that's much clearer - thank you :)
> 
> To re-iterate:
> 
> 1) I need to contact Ian Jacobs about the idea and get feedback from him.
> 2) I need to do the same as 1 with Fantasai.
> 3) I need to make a stand-alone page and host it somewhere on my own server, the page being based on whatever templates or requirements I discover via 1 and 2.
> 4) The page is presented on the list and people decide whether it's OK or not.

The plan sounds good, although if I would suggest you switch 3) and 1)
or at least have your plan written down before contacting them. It's up
to you though.

>> Is creating a sample page in other place before presenting that to the
>> public (www-style) or contact (fantasai) something not acceptable to
>> you?
> 
> No, that now makes sense but I didn't understand it as you meant it the first time.  The term straw-man is usually understood as derogatory - you make a straw-man in order to burn it; and using a wiki to do a page design make no sense to me from a technical standpoint. It's now clearer to me what you were meaning to say.

Sorry then. The word strawman seems to be used quite a lot in the
standards word to mean something halfly-baked, e.g. strawman proposal. I
might be getting this word wrong too, but anyway, I hope you know what I
am saying now.

> I'm not sure whether or not I'm reading into your messages - it's confusing because you're being helpful and spending time on this (which I'm grateful for), but you're also coming off as antagonistic in some respects - perhaps my ignorance has come off as antagonistic to you too, in which case I apologise, it was not my intent - but yes, I now understand what you have been saying, and the additional information which is more clearly written now makes sense to me. Thank you :)

Does it matter whether I am antagonistic or not? From your point of
view, you should just try to achieve your goal. I was trying hard to
guess what exactly you want here and if you say something like "I am
trying to get people's attention" then I'll stop sending to you more
emails because your goal clearly doesn't align with mine.

This thread and the "Forums" thread are really longer than they ought to
be because you re-iterate your points again and again. I think no one
strongly disagree with you and it's just that people are not willing to
be "mangaged" by you and do everything you wish. I don't even state your
plan or anything actionable and I had to create plans for you.
Apparently my HyperMail plan patching plan doesn't work for you and I
hope this one, the one stated at the beginning, which is now written
down (fortunatel by you), would work out.

To further clarify, your possible intention(s):

1. Contribute your use cases and make sure they are written down in some
form
2. Get to know more about how W3C works
3. Help to make the communication channels less opaque
4. Get attention from people/Try to influence other people so they say
what you're saying

You seem to exhibit all 2/3/4 in this thread and the "Forums" thread but
this is making people hard to work with you. For example,

* I don't want to help you with 2. because I think fantasai's blog post
is good enough (Tab is keen on this, but not me)
* I think any effort like 3. should be appreciated as a community member.
* I am quite annoyed by 4.

Therefore, if you feel that I am antagonistic then that's indeed my
attitude towards your 2 and 4. But let's make progress on 3.

Received on Tuesday, 17 January 2012 21:34:08 UTC