- From: Dan Brickley <danbri@danbri.org>
- Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:47:38 +0100
- To: Pat Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>
- Cc: Thomas Baker <tbaker@tbaker.de>, www-archive@w3.org
Hi there Pat, I was reponding in a Skype chat to your comments re FOAF and formalism, thought I'd bounce it your way too... The odd thing with thinking of FOAF as an ontological 'specification of a conceptualization', is that the underlying conceptualization of people and their doings behind FOAF informs more the stuff I left out, rather than the stuff I put in. And for example it's also visible in the way we focussed on allowing identification-by-description (inverse functional property reasoning) rather than forcing everyone to use URIs "for people". There's certainly nothing much by way of classes whose membership has nice tidy membership rules; except the odd construct I put in for annotating a "Group" (or people/agents) with a link to a class definition that can populate the group; so you might have the group of W3C employees, defined as people whose workplaceHomepage is http://www.w3.org/. That bit of the spec seems almost entirely ignored so far, despite it being quite interesting! Maybe not enough OWL tooling out there yet? (I was wondering about putting in a mechanism for using SPARQL queries instead, ... but forget that for now :) Re social meaning, the best example of that in FOAF is 'schoolHomepage'. Where I come from, School is what you leave at 16 or so. But it soon became clear that other English usage was dominating, and 'school' was being used to cover universities etc too. It's possible that having a richer ontology of educational institutions in the spec might have stopped this happening, but I doubt it. Everything points to a simple observation: people rarely read the spec (even though it is fairly helpful and detailed prose, compared to many RDFS namespaces which contain just RDFS/OWL). See http://xmlns.com/foaf/spec/#term_schoolHomepage for documentation of this shift in meaning, "FOAF does not (currently) define a class for 'School' (if it did, it would probably be as a sub-class of foaf:Organization). The original application area for foaf:schoolHomepage was for 'schools' in the British-English sense; however American-English usage has dominated, and it is now perfectly reasonable to describe Universities, Colleges and post-graduate study using foaf:schoolHomepage. " cheers, Dan [11/19/09 9:11:49 PM] Thomas Baker: Did you see Pat's comment at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2009Sep/0063.html: FOAF is a good example of a useful ontology which is almost nonexistent as a formal specification, and gets all its meaning from the way its terms are actually used. It is a socially defined ontology rather than a logically defined one. Another example is dublin core. The primary use of the formal axioms in cases like this is to be a guide for users in how to apply the vocabulary to instance data, rather than to support complex inferences. [11/19/09 10:33:01 PM] Dan Brickley: yeah, he's right and he's wrong [11/19/09 10:33:05 PM] Dan Brickley: i was thinking about this recently [11/19/09 10:33:20 PM] Dan Brickley: actually there's a reasonable amount of ontology in foaf [11/19/09 10:33:25 PM] Dan Brickley: esp compared to classic DC [11/19/09 10:33:39 PM] Dan Brickley: eg. the identification of people via their properties aspect [11/19/09 10:35:02 PM] Dan Brickley: but per http://www-ksl.stanford.edu/kst/what-is-an-ontology.html " An ontology is a specification of a conceptualization. " ... [11/19/09 10:36:10 PM] Dan Brickley: ...there is a definitely a worldview that foaf embodies, but the class/property structure doesn't specify as such [11/19/09 10:36:46 PM] Dan Brickley: for example, i believe it's better to show friendship than to assert it. So in FOAF we do *not* have a strict taxonomy of friendship types; instead we encourage people to document the 'evidence friendship leaves in the world...' [11/19/09 10:37:27 PM] Dan Brickley: we don't have much in foaf for defining classes by their members [11/19/09 10:37:47 PM] Dan Brickley: except for the OWL piece of the group mechanism (similar to AgentClass), which is largely unused [11/19/09 10:38:06 PM] Dan Brickley: i'll send this to Pat, see what he says!
Received on Thursday, 19 November 2009 21:48:12 UTC