- From: Steve Faulkner <sfaulkner@paciellogroup.com>
- Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:27:47 +0100
- To: "Ian Hickson" <ian@hixie.ch>, HTMLWG <public-html@w3.org>
- Cc: www-archive@w3.org
- Message-ID: <55687cf80708210327k3748e803me30cc4c5a1691789@mail.gmail.com>
Hi Ian, In your off (HTML WG) list response [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2007Aug/0024.html ] you have offered to help make a second "accessible" version of http://www.whatwg.org/issues/ This is I believe is misguided and somewhat disingenuous: "[09:51] <Hixie> and frankly, i don't care if it doesn't work in IE7 [09:51] <Hixie> that's IE7's prblem ... [09:53] <Lachy> just that IE users are complaining [09:53] <Hixie> that's their problem [09:53] <Hixie> they need a better browser" cite: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20070821 If it is technically feasible as you infer (in your email) to provide a version of the page that can be displayed in IE why not provide it in the first place rather than having to duplicate the effort in developing a second version? Providing an "accessible" alternative is always a last resort. Often times arguments on the HTML WG mailing list are based on concepts such as "real world" use cases. IE is a mainstream browser used by many people. Another concept is that "accessibility should be built in". Reasonable efforts should be made to ensure that content for the consumption of the working group members is designed to be displayed without users having to jump through hoops in order to be able to access it. The popular "pave the cowpaths" concept also comes to mind. Many users use IE to access web content, design content so it can also be viewed in IE. I suggest that the principles that result in accessible and usable content are applied in the design process, rather than having to waste time re-engineering. On 21/08/07, Steve Faulkner <sfaulkner@paciellogroup.com > wrote: > > Ian wrote: > >Given that this is a standards working group, requiring a browser that > >supports three year old standards seems reasonable. No? > > > For assistive technology users who cannot make use of modern browsers it > is unreasonable. > Why can't all AT users make use of current browsers? > Because of the versions of assitive technology they use due to > interoperability contstraints or monetary constraints (upgrading is > expensive). > > So are we saying now that you cannot fully participate in the WG > activities unless you use "approved" browsers? > > > On 21/08/07, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch> wrote: > > > > On Tue, 21 Aug 2007, Steve Faulkner wrote: > > > > > > Using IE 7 on XP when the page http://www.whatwg.org/issues/ opens it > > > displays the message: > > > > > > "Your Web browser does not support DOM3 Core, which is required by > > this > > > application." > > > > Yeah, IE7 doesn't support some of the features I use (like > > .textContent). > > It should work fine if you use a more modern browser, like Firefox, > > Safari, or Opera. I didn't do anything to work around browser bugs or > > limitations in the development of this tool (except close two <p> > > elements > > that were confusing Opera, but then the HTML5 parsing spec isn't a > > standard yet, so that's arguably not their fault); I just followed the > > specs, like we're supposed to. > > > > > > > Do need to point out the issues with requiring a browser with "DOM3 > > Core > > > support" to view the content? > > > > Given that this is a standards working group, requiring a browser that > > supports three year old standards seems reasonable. No? > > > > -- > > Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL > > > > http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. > > Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' > > > > > > > > -- > with regards > > Steve Faulkner > Technical Director - TPG Europe > Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium > > www.paciellogroup.com | www.wat-c.org > Web Accessibility Toolbar - > http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html > -- with regards Steve Faulkner Technical Director - TPG Europe Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium www.paciellogroup.com | www.wat-c.org Web Accessibility Toolbar - http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
Received on Tuesday, 21 August 2007 10:27:51 UTC