- From: Bjarni R. Einarsson <bre@netverjar.is>
- Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 03:00:54 -0400 (EDT)
- To: www-annotation@w3c.org, Jon Garfunkel <jgarfunk@bbn.com>
Since this has very little to do with implementation of a particulaur variant of annotation software, and more to do with my opinions on what is the right (or wrong) way to implment WWW annotations, I'm moving this discussion back to the list. I hope you don't mind, Jon. :-) Also, since I'm saying all sorts of (nice) things about Crit, I feel Ping should have a chance to correct me if I make any mistakes. On 1999-08-28, 15:55:17 (-0400), Jon Garfunkel wrote: > > All we've got is the 3V protocol. [...] > I'd like to have an OpenSource clone to work with the 3V protocols. Standardizing on the 3V protocol would be a very bad move, IMHO. In fact, I think use of 3V should be discouraged... I say this, because from what I've read and seen (screenshots), 3V seems to have some major problems. Most of them stem from what looks like a genuine wish to emulate "Post-Its". One of the values of WWW-annotation would be facilitating critical discussions - but you can't have a real discussion using "Post-Its". They're just too small to write well structured arguments, and they have that stupid glue strip on the back which makes handling them akward. :-) Time for a disclaimer. I'm basing my judgements of 3V on something I read: The 3V protocol involves sending the annotation itself (not just an URL) as a reply when the client requests annotations for a given web page. If this is incorrect, then please substitute "3V" with "Theoretical Annotation System" for the rest of this message. :) Anyway, this implies that 3V servers either store or directly manipulate the content of all annotations. If a 3V server admin doesn't like the word "potato" then you [the client] might /never/ see that word in an annotation coming from a 3V server. They can remove it from all annotations you are sent, no matter what the annotation's author meant to say. This demonstrates the problem with having the annotation server send you the annotation itself: the annotation server can filter what you see, and neither the client nor the author have any control over what gets filtered. This is one reason why all mediators should be local. 3V appears to be even worse than that though. The 3V server doesn't just send you the annotation content, it also stores the annotations locally. Censorship on 3V is therefore not limited to irritating "potato-filters" - the admins can just delete or edit stuff they don't like! That, in short, is why I don't like 3V. That and the fact that it is a closed-source proprietary windows-only technology... :-) I think reverse-engineering the 3V protocol is only useful as a method to provide a painless "upgrade path" from 3V to a "real" WWW annotation system. OTOH, I do like the Crit model, because it doesn't really have these problems. Crit currently consists of 3 parts: 1) A database of annotations (which are just web pages). 2) A database of links between web pages, including but not limited to 1). 3) A mediator which inserts information from 2) into the web page which is requested by the client. 2) can link together any two web pages - not just annotations stored by the Crit server. Thus different Crit server link databases, instances of 2), can contain links to annotations stored anywhere online - including annotations stored by other Crit servers. Currently Crit implements all these features in one integrated system, but that isn't required by the architecture - each item on the list could be implemented & run seperately. Also, the client is responsible for fetching each annotation itself. The mediator, 3), only provides information about where the annotations are, not what they actually say. "Potato-filtering" is impossible, because the client fetches the annotations' content directly from the source. The client's experience, 3), can trivially be migrated to a local, user-run process, such as the the browser or the "local proxy" I proposed in an earlier message. It depends only on communication with 2). So a Crit-based system doesn't have 3V's flaws: the server admin can only censor pages stored locally, in 1), or limit which annotations the server points to, in 2). Both problems can be avoided by: - hosting your annotations on your own personal web site - telling multiple Crit servers about them - asking multiple Crit servers for links when browsing Also, this crit-based model for annotations leverages the current WWW infrastructure as much as possible. The only new standards we really need would describe how the client communicates with the link server. This involves defining a file format (XML based?), selecting a transport/request method (HTTP/CGI?) and a fine-grained link format (Xpointers?). As Jon pointed out in an earlier message, Crit as software isn't something we should focus on. But if we want to aim for standardization on a useful method to annotate the WWW, I think we should definately make use of the exellent ideas it demonstrates. Especially since it appears to only be a matter of writing down a spec for a file-format... Finally, in spite of all the flaws I've mentioned, a standard should allow (not require) the server to send the annotation text along with the link information. This would be a valuable optimization for glossary- and dictionary-style services (*). But I do think the standard should require a link to the "source" of the annotation in all cases where it isn't actually stored by the link server itself, so the user can independantly verify the integrity of the data it receives. (*) Imagine just hitting a button in your browser to transform each and every word on the current page into a specially selected link to the corrosponding entry in one of many online dictionaries... -- Bjarni R. Einarsson PGP: 02764305, B7A3AB89 bre@netverjar.is -><- http://www.mmedia.is/~bre/ Netverjar gegn ruslpósti: http://www.netverjar.is/baratta/ruslpostur/
Received on Sunday, 29 August 1999 10:43:47 UTC