[aapi] Minutes: UAI TF Meeting Tue 31 March 2015

Link: http://www.w3.org/2015/03/31-aapi-minutes.html

Plain text follows:

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

           Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
                              31 Mar 2015

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2015/03/31-aapi-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Cynthia_Shelly, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs,
          Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Bryan_Garaventa

   Regrets
   Chair
          Joseph_Scheuhammer

   Scribe
          joanie

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]ACTION-1590: (Joseph/James) Confirm that the AXAPI
            mapping of aria-owns is AXOwns array.
         2. [5]ACTION-1279: (All) Talk to mobile manufacturers
            about how to include their apis.
         3. [6]All: User Agent Implementation face-to-face in
            Augsut.
         4. [7]ACTION-1373/ISSUE-441: (Cynthia) Test case for when
            aria-posinset and aria-setsize are provided explicitly
            on some but not all elements.
         5. [8]ISSUE-700/ACTION-1544/ACTION-1546: (Rich, Cynthia,
            David, Alex) Mapping of role rowgroup.
         6. [9]ISSUE-708: (All) Section 5.1.2: Condition on
            including elements in the accessibility tree is
            ambiguous.
     * [10]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 31 March 2015

   <scribe> agenda: this

   <joanie> scribe: joanie

ACTION-1590: (Joseph/James) Confirm that the AXAPI mapping of
aria-owns is AXOwns array.

   <clown> action-1590?

   <trackbot> action-1590 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Confirm that
   the AXAPI mapping of aria-owns is AXOwns array -- due
   2015-02-27 -- CLOSED

   <trackbot>
   [11]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1590

     [11] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1590

   JS: I noticed there was an error in the mappings for aria-owns.
   ... I asked James and he got back to me yesterday to confirm
   that it is AXOwns and not AXLinkedUIElements.
   ... Therefore, I have closed this action.

   RS: Apple has an AXOwns?

   JS: I came across it awhile back. I'm not sure how long it's
   been there.
   ... This prompted my question about the mapping for aria-owns
   on the Apple.

ACTION-1279: (All) Talk to mobile manufacturers about how to include
their apis.

   <clown> action-1279?

   <trackbot> action-1279 -- Shane McCarron to Talk to mobile
   manufacturers about how to include their apis -- due 2013-10-25
   -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [12]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1279

     [12] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1279

   JS: I brought this up on list yesterday. Rich has already
   replied.
   ... There's an old action about asking mobile manufacturers
   about incuding their mappings in our specs.

   RS: We couldn't get it in time for ARIA 1.0.
   ... Interfaces in some cases add some further complication for
   mapping.
   ... For instance, how do you get the header information?
   ... I also sent a note to Dominic regarding what Google does.

   JD: Apple now has an open means via which developers and
   testers can build and examine WebKit/Safari for iOS via
   simulator.

   <clown>
   [13]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Mar/02
   47.html

     [13] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Mar/0247.html

   JS: Dominic has already applied (link above)
   ... (Reads from above message from Dominic)

   JD: Here is the link I mentioned
   [14]https://www.webkit.org/blog/3457/building-webkit-for-ios-si
   mulator/

     [14]
https://www.webkit.org/blog/3457/building-webkit-for-ios-simulator/

   RS and JS: We need to know if we can do this in the 1.1
   timeframe

   RS: I will ask.

   JS: We can do the Microsoft mappings in time for 1.1: Just use
   UIA.
   ... What does Firefox do on the Android?

   JD: They also have Firefox OS. I know they're actively working
   on that, but I don't know any details.

   JS: Should this still belong to Shane?

   RS: I don't know how it got assigned to Shane.
   ... Assign it to me for now.

   JD: Someone perhaps should ping Mozilla about the Firefox OS
   mappings.

   JS: I'll ping Yura.

All: User Agent Implementation face-to-face in Augsut.

   <clown> scribenick: clown

   <joanie> JS: This is something Joanie wanted me to add to the
   agenda.

   JD: Thanks to all the work I'm doing on new table roles, I
   think it would be good to face-to-face.
   ... Specifically the user agent issues.
   ... We'd want gecko developers theres.
   ... We'd want Cynthis to rep. Microsoft.
   ... And, we'd want James.
   ... And Joseph, since he's the editor.
   ... A lot of the people would already be in Toronto around that
   time.
   ... It would be good if Chris, Cynthia, and James could come.

   <joanie> scribe: joanie

   <clown> JD: We could do work on harmonziing the mappings across
   platforms.

   CS: I might be able to come. But I'm not yet sure.

   JS: My take on the meeting is to get consistency across
   platforms in mapping.
   ... I'm not yet sure if I'll be able to attend.

   (Group discusses other possibilities for having a face-to-face.
   No current, potentiall-viable candidates.)

ACTION-1373/ISSUE-441: (Cynthia) Test case for when aria-posinset and
aria-setsize are provided explicitly on some but not all elements.

   <clown> action-1373?

   <trackbot> action-1373 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a test case
   for when aria-posinset and aria-setsize are provided explicitly
   on some but not all elements. -- due 2015-03-24 -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [15]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1373

     [15] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1373

   JS: This one was delayed last week until today.

   CS: I haven't had a chance yet. Leave it overdue.

ISSUE-700/ACTION-1544/ACTION-1546: (Rich, Cynthia, David, Alex)
Mapping of role rowgroup.

   JS: This is progress on the how to map rowgroup.

   <clown> issue-700?

   <trackbot> issue-700 -- Discuss rowgroup, tbody, and thead in
   aapis -- open

   <trackbot> [16]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/700

     [16] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/700

   JS: What happened was Rich sent email to Alex and the list last
   week.
   ... Alex and I engaged in a discussion about it.
   ... What we suggested that if rowgroup doesn't have a name and
   isn't focusable, it shouldn't be exposed.

   <clown>
   [17]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Mar/02
   15.html

     [17] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Mar/0215.html

   JS: Alex said that if it has a role, it should be exposed and
   he doesn't want to have to check if it's focusable or has a
   name, etc.
   ... In other words, Alex says if it has role="rowgroup" it
   should still be exposed via the accessibility API.

   CS: We don't do that, though I can understand why.

   JS: Alex says it's more efficient to just put it in.
   ... If you have a bare thead or tbody, they don't map it.

   CS: It seems like they should be the same.
   ... And they don't map every single element.

   JD: There are also implications for the new non-interactive
   table roles (e.g. thead)

   CS: We already have conditional code for role mapping.

   JS: To clarify, he did say they don't do that for
   role="presentation".

   CS: I question whether the performance impact is that big a
   deal.

   <clown> scribenick: clown

   JD: If the rowgroup is focusable, then it is in the tree. We
   agreed on that.

   CS: Anything that is focusable is in the tree.

   JD: Right, but that means Orca already has to be ready to
   handle a focusable rowgroup.
   ... Given that, the code is there, and if Orca has to deal with
   a meaningless rowgroup, it can.

   <joanie> scribe: joanie

   JS: Last week we agreed if rowgroup is present, but not
   focusable and doesn't have an attribute, it doesn't get mapped.
   ... And we emailed him our conclusions.

   RS: The problem is nobody else is mapping it, right?

   JS: Apple isn't and I don't think Microsoft isn't.
   ... And Joanie doesn't want to.

   RS: I'd like to be consistent across the platforms.

   JS: The impression I get is that Alex is not totally opposed to
   it, but he'd prefer not to have to special case this.

ISSUE-708: (All) Section 5.1.2: Condition on including elements in
the accessibility tree is ambiguous.

   <clown> issue-708?

   <trackbot> issue-708 -- The phrase "If not already excluded
   from the accessibility tree per the rules above" implies that
   the listed conditions do not override. Is that correct? -- open

   <trackbot> [18]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/708

     [18] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/708

   JS: I started looking at the rules about when to include things
   in the tree.
   ... I found there's there's "if" clause that I don't like.
   ... (Reads from spec)

   CS: There were some special cases where we excluded things.
   ... What are the listed exclusions?

   JS: (Reads from Section 5.1.1)

   CS: We probably can re-open this discussion.
   ... There was a lot of discussion in the past between PF and
   HTML about this.

   <clown> Exclusion rules:
   [19]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ex
   clude_elements2

     [19]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#exclude_elements2

   <clown> Inclusion rules:
   [20]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#in
   clude_elements

     [20]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#include_elements

   CS: We should bring this up at the taskforce and get input from
   Steve and others.

   <clown> ACTION: Cynthia to bring up issue-708 with the
   html-a11y taskforce. [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2015/03/31-aapi-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-1608 - Bring up issue-708 with the
   html-a11y taskforce. [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2015-04-07].

   <clown> action-1608?

   <trackbot> action-1608 -- Cynthia Shelly to Bring up issue-708
   with the html-a11y taskforce. -- due 2015-04-07 -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [22]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1608

     [22] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1608

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Cynthia to bring up issue-708 with the html-a11y
   taskforce. [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2015/03/31-aapi-minutes.html#action01]

   [End of minutes]

Received on Tuesday, 31 March 2015 20:21:11 UTC