- From: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
- Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 16:08:39 -0400
- To: "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org>
Link: https://www.w3.org/2015/04/28-aapi-minutes.html
Plain text follows:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
28 Apr 2015
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2015/04/28-aapi-irc
Attendees
Present
Bryan_Garaventa, Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer,
Rich_Schwerdtfeger
Regrets
Chair
Joseph_Scheuhammer
Scribe
joanie
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]ACTION-1279 (Rich, Joseph) Talk to mobile
manufacturers about including their APIs.
2. [5]ISSUE-700/ACTION-1544/ACTION-1546: (All) Mapping of
role rowgroup.
3. [6]Meeting next week.
4. [7]ACTION-842: (Cynthia) Create a diagram to support
section 1.2 A11Y vs DOM tree.
5. [8]ACTION-1409: (Joanie) Monitor progress of bug
against atk in gnome's bugzilla requesting new
position, level, and other api be added.
6. [9]Action-1619
* [10]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 28 April 2015
<clown> agenda: this
<scribe> scribe: joanie
ACTION-1279 (Rich, Joseph) Talk to mobile manufacturers about
including their APIs.
<clown> action-1279?
<trackbot> action-1279 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Talk to
mobile manufacturers about how to include their apis -- due
2013-10-25 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[11]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1279
[11] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1279
JS: Rich and I had said last week that we'd email various
people about mobile accessibility APIs to see if they'd help.
... I sent something to Yura, CCing everyone.
... I learned form Dominic that there are no roles in the
accessibility APIs.
... They do everything from properties (checkable, selectable,
etc.)
<clown>
[12]https://developer.android.com/reference/android/view/access
ibility/AccessibilityEvent.html
[12]
https://developer.android.com/reference/android/view/accessibility/AccessibilityEvent.html
JS: From Yura, I learned about the event module (see above
link).
... I need to follow up to find out how aria properties map to
the above.
RS: Yes, we need to be able to test this.
... There seems to be some differences between mobile native
toolkits and web, at least for accessibility implementations.
JS: I will follow with Yura about the events.
... I don't know where else this goes (action-1279)
RS: We can't do it with iOS because not all of their API is
documented.
... We might be able to make some progress with Android.
JS: If Mozilla ported Gecko to the iPhone...
RS: I have Firefox on my iPhone already.
... We might be able to work with Yura on this.
... Leave the action open for now.
JS: I'll keep asking Yura questions.
ISSUE-700/ACTION-1544/ACTION-1546: (All) Mapping of role rowgroup.
JS: I had hoped to get further than I had on this.
... I finished my demo.
<clown>
[13]http://clown.idrc.ocad.ca/Fluid/aria/FocusableRowGroup.html
[13] http://clown.idrc.ocad.ca/Fluid/aria/FocusableRowGroup.html
JS: Here it is (above)
... I was going to email James, replying to his email about
mapping rowgroup.
... I made both a grid and a table. In the case of the grid,
it's interactive rowgroups; in the case of the table,
interactive tbody elements.
... The time tables (e.g. midday) can be collapsed to hide
portions of the schedule you are not interested in.
... In Firefox, only the interactive tbody elements are there.
... I tested it with Safari and both the grid and table, the
rowgroups and tbody elements are not in the accessibility tree.
<clown> <div id="rg1" class="morning" role="rowgroup"
aria-labelledy="morn" tabindex="0" onclick="hideTbody (this,
'rg2', event);" onkeydown="hideTbody (this, 'rg2', event);">
<clown> <div role="row"><span role="rowheader"
id="morn">Morning Rush Hour<br>(click to hide)</span><span
role="gridcell">6:30</span><span
role="gridcell">6:45</span><span
role="gridcell">7:05</span><span
role="gridcell">7:10</span></div>
<clown> <div role="row"><span role="presentation"
class="emtpy"></span><span role="gridcell">7:00</span><span
role="gridcell">7:10</span><span
role="gridcell">7:30</span><span
role="gridcell">7:35</span></div>
<clown> </div>
JS: The accessibility grid and table are *almost* identical
... Even though one is "div soup" and the other table markup.
... My next step is to write to James and the entire PF group.
... And ask what should happen with Safari.
... As a reminder, a couple of weeks ago we agreed that if a
rowgroup was interactive, it should be mapped/appear in the
accessibility tree.
BG: What happens if it's not in the tree, but pointed to via
aria-owns?
JS: There is a section in the mapping spec about inclusion.
(JS reads from spec)
<clown>
[14]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#in
clude_elements
[14]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#include_elements
JS: It's near the above.
<clown>
[15]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ar
iaOwns
[15] http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaOwns
RS: Doesn't IE include aria-owns?
JS: I know Firefox are considering restructuring the tree based
on aria-owns.
RS: That would make it easier for AT vendors.
JS and RS: Because they have to tree dive and look at
relations, etc.
RS: It would be better if we could clean things like this up.
This divergence is a real issue.
JS: I'm going to publish my example and post to the list some
time next week.
Meeting next week.
JS: I will be on holidays.
RS: I will also be unable to attend.
JS: We can either let Joanie and Bryan have a meeting or cancel
it.
... I'll send an email out.
ACTION-842: (Cynthia) Create a diagram to support section 1.2 A11Y vs
DOM tree.
JS: Cynthia is not here.
ACTION-1409: (Joanie) Monitor progress of bug against atk in gnome's
bugzilla requesting new position, level, and other api be added.
<clown> action-1409?
<trackbot> action-1409 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Monitor progress
of bug against atk in gnome's bugzilla requesting new position,
level, and other api be added
([16]https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453) -- due
2015-04-07 -- OPEN
[16] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453)
<trackbot>
[17]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1409
[17] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1409
JD: No update yet. Sorry! But it's on the short list.
<clown> scribenick: clown
JD: One thing I was thinking about where you particpated in the
face to face at Redmond…
... If these interfaces look a lot alike from a harmonization
point of view.
<richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: when I participated in the adhoc
face to face in Redmond. If the interfaces looked a lot a like
we could get closer to cross platform
JD: The harmonization becomes the priority.
... And that should be done early in the gnome development
cycle.
<richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: if we are going to do work like
WAPA the time is now to try and harmonized.
<scribe> scribenick: richardschwerdtfeger
joanie: I know you are the biggest proponent of harmonization
now or in 6 months would be great for ATK
rich: the thing that is in the way is WAI charters
<clown> scribenick: clown
RS: There are two factions.
... One would like ARIA to remain a task force; the other in a
separate working group.
... I don't care, but there needs to be technical skills for
the ARIA work.
... We need to get APA and ARIA solidified in terms of what we
are going to do with those two groups.
... I'm going to set up a taskforce between possibly PF or ARIA
with the WebApps group to work on the events.
... The fact is the MS has an enormous committment to UIA.
... We could get the AAPIs closer together if we incorporated
their control patterns.
... If we could write some interface extensions in other AAPIs,
we could get going.
JD: And we, as a separate group within GNOME, we can do that —
add new APIs.
... Right now, we are at that point in our cycle.
... If you have new API, please let us know ASAP.
RS: I think it's 6 months out at this point.
... We have ARIA 1.1, dpub, and other stuff.
... Everyone is very busy.
... The ARIA work is not going to change. The only thing that
might impact us is PF reviewing other specs.
JD: I am now leaning toward putting off action-1409 for six
months.
... It sounds like we should defer it as part of the API stuff.
<joanie> scribe: joanie
BG: What are the differences between web apps and indie ui? Or
what is the overlap?
JS: They are separate groups in the W3C.
RS: Indie UI was a working group between PF and Web Apps, but
the latter no longer is active.
... Indie UI provides events and user context.
... Context includes things like user needs (e.g. captions)
... Events are around device-independent interaction.
Action-1619
action-1619
<trackbot> action-1619 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose
ATK/AT-SPI mappings for aria-placeholder. -- due 2015-04-28 --
CLOSED
<trackbot>
[18]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1619
[18] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1619
<clown> action-1619?
<trackbot> action-1619 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose
ATK/AT-SPI mappings for aria-placeholder. -- due 2015-04-28 --
CLOSED
<trackbot>
[19]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1619
[19] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1619
JS: This was Joanie's action.
<clown>
[20]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ar
iaPlaceholder
[20]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaPlaceholder
JS: But she got it done 40 minutes before the meeting and
passed it on to me.
... I've now put in the core mapping spec.
<clown>
[21]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ma
pping_conflicts
[21]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#mapping_conflicts
JS: The above indicates that the host language gets to say "I
win"
... (Reads language from spec)
... This text and spec globally covers the problem of native
versus aria placeholder.
RS: Steve wrote a comment about this (on the IA2 mailing list).
JS: If we do something in the core AAM, it gets really
complicated.
... There's going to be a lot of overlap with ARIA attributes.
RS: SVG fortunately doesn't have that many host language
semantics.
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 28 April 2015 20:09:15 UTC