- From: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
- Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 16:14:49 -0400
- To: "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org>
Link: http://www.w3.org/2015/04/21-aapi-minutes.html
Plain text follows:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
21 Apr 2015
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2015/04/21-aapi-irc
Attendees
Present
Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa,
Rich_Schwerdtfeger
Regrets
Chair
Joseph_Scheuhammer
Scribe
joanie
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]All: Create actions for mapping @aria-placeholder.
2. [5]ACTION-842: (Cynthia) Create a diagram to support
section 1.2 A11Y vs DOM tree.
3. [6]ACTION-1279: (Rich) Talk to mobile manufacturers
about how to include their apis.
4. [7]ACTION-1373/ISSUE-441: (Cynthia) Test case for when
aria-posinset and aria-setsize are provided explicitly
on some but not all elements.
5. [8]ISSUE-700/ACTION-1544/ACTION-1546: (Rich, Cynthia,
David, Alex) Mapping of role rowgroup.
* [9]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 21 April 2015
<scribe> agenda: this
<joanie> scribe: joanie
All: Create actions for mapping @aria-placeholder.
JS: There's new text for aria-placeholder in the spec. We now
need to put it in the mapping guide.
RS: In name computation or... ?
JS: We'll get to that.
<clown> ACTION: Joanie to propose ATK/AT-SPI mappings for
aria-placeholder. [recorded in
[10]http://www.w3.org/2015/04/21-aapi-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1619 - Propose atk/at-spi mappings
for aria-placeholder. [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2015-04-28].
JS: Shall I give the action to Joanie for ATK/AT-SPI2 mappings
for aria-placeholder?
<clown> action-1619?
<trackbot> action-1619 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose atk/at-spi
mappings for aria-placeholder. -- due 2015-04-28 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[11]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1619
[11] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1619
JS: Due date?
JD: One week.
JS: I can do the same for Cynthia.
<clown> ACTION: Cynthia to propose UIA Express and UIA mappings
for aria-placeholder. [recorded in
[12]http://www.w3.org/2015/04/21-aapi-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1620 - Propose uia express and uia
mappings for aria-placeholder. [on Cynthia Shelly - due
2015-04-28].
<clown> ACTION: Joseph to ask Cynthia if UIA Express will be
abandoned, and do we want to keep the UIA Express column in the
mapping spec. [recorded in
[13]http://www.w3.org/2015/04/21-aapi-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1621 - Ask cynthia if uia express
will be abandoned, and do we want to keep the uia express
column in the mapping spec. [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due
2015-04-28].
<clown> action-1620?
<trackbot> action-1620 -- Cynthia Shelly to Propose uia express
and uia mappings for aria-placeholder. -- due 2015-04-28 --
OPEN
<trackbot>
[14]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1620
[14] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1620
RS: Next time Cynthia is on the call, ask her about the status
for UIA Express.
<clown> action-1621
<trackbot> action-1621 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Ask cynthia if
uia express will be abandoned, and do we want to keep the uia
express column in the mapping spec. -- due 2015-04-28 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[15]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1621
[15] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1621
JS: Suggestions for whom I should give the IA2 job to? Alex?
... The mapping for OS X is already done.
JD: I would give the IA2 one to Alex.
<clown> ACTION: Alex to Propose MSAA + IA2 mapping for
aria-placeholder. [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2015/04/21-aapi-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Error finding 'Alex'. You can review and register
nicknames at <[17]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.
[17] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users
<clown> ACTION: surkov to Propose MSAA + IA2 mapping for
aria-placeholder. [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2015/04/21-aapi-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1622 - Propose msaa + ia2 mapping for
aria-placeholder. [on Alexander Surkov - due 2015-04-28].
<clown> action-1622
<trackbot> action-1622 -- Alexander Surkov to Propose msaa +
ia2 mapping for aria-placeholder. -- due 2015-04-28 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[19]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1622
[19] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1622
JS: And one final action for me to confirm with James Craig
that the mapping is correct.
<clown> ACTION: Joseph to confirm with Jame Craig that the
proper AXAPI mapping of aria-placeholder is AXPlaceholderValue.
[recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2015/04/21-aapi-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1623 - Confirm with jame craig that
the proper axapi mapping of aria-placeholder is
axplaceholdervalue. [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-04-28].
<clown> action-1623?
<trackbot> action-1623 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Confirm with
jame craig that the proper axapi mapping of aria-placeholder is
axplaceholdervalue. -- due 2015-04-28 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[21]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1623
[21] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1623
<clown>
[22]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Apr/00
39.html
[22] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Apr/0039.html
JS: Rich, I don't think this belongs in the name computation.
... The email I wrote to this effect is at the mailing list
linked above.
... I think it should be mapped as a placeholder property.
RS: You will need to get this coordinated with Steve.
JS: And Steve had written back that nearly all the placeholders
are used as names, so we might as well.
RS: I understand Steve's point.
JS: But I think the ATs are smart enough to handle this on
their own.
RS: What's wrong with falling back on placeholder?
JS: I have no problem with that, but I think the AT should be
doing the falling back; not the user agent.
RS: I don't think ATs care; they just want to know what the
name is.
... To be honest, I agree with Steve.
... But if you can convince the browser vendors to do it
differently, that's alright by me.
JS: Why wouldn't it be the platform people?
RS: Doesn't it show up in the object attributes?
JD: Yes
RS: Alot of people, especially on mobile, uses placeholder for
the label.
JS: And AT can then use the placeholder text.
RS: If you were an AT, why would you say absolutely nothing if
you had a placeholder and you had no label?
JS: If there was no label, I'd say the placehoder text.
JD: Orca already uses placeholder and presents it.
JS: I do this visually.
(Some discussion about what Orca does)
RS: If it's not in the name and it's not in the object
attributes, it sounds like you may need to put both.
JS: I'm hoping in response to the actions I just created that
people will say we need a placeholder property.
RS: I think you'll have to put it in the object attribute and
also in the name computation.
JS: I don't see why. Isn't the AT smart enough to do this?
... There's a danger of it getting double-presented twice if
ATs don't check to see if the name and placeholder are the
same.
RS: That makes sense, the double-speaking issue.
JS: And to get around that, the ATs have to compare.
... And if you have both aria-placeholder and a native one....
We can have a mismatch.
RS: When following up with Steve, these issues would be worth
mentioning.
ACTION-842: (Cynthia) Create a diagram to support section 1.2 A11Y vs
DOM tree.
JS: Cynthia is not here.
<clown> action-842?
<trackbot> action-842 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a diagram to
support section 1.2 A11Y vs DOM tree -- due 2015-03-31 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[23]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/842
[23] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/842
JS: A long time ago someone suggested we should create a
diagram showing the differences and similarities between the
accessibility tree and DOM tree.
... I will ping her to see what the status is.
ACTION-1279: (Rich) Talk to mobile manufacturers about how to include
their apis.
<clown> action-1279?
<trackbot> action-1279 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Talk to
mobile manufacturers about how to include their apis -- due
2013-10-25 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[24]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1279
[24] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1279
JS: I think I had an action here, but I couldn't remember what
it might be.
... I'm supposed to write to Yura (the guy working on the
firefox accessibility stuff for Android).
RS: Do you get to see the iOS mappings in WebKit?
JD: Yes functionally.
<clown> scribenick: clown
RS: Whos should I talk to about iOS mappings?
JD: James or Chris.
RS: Does Chris work for Apple?
JD: Yes.
RS: Can I cc you?
JD: Sure.
RS: I will followup with Chris as part of this action.
<joanie> scribe: joanie
JS: I will follow up with Yura.
... And CC you, Rich.
ACTION-1373/ISSUE-441: (Cynthia) Test case for when aria-posinset and
aria-setsize are provided explicitly on some but not all elements.
JS: Another Cynthia item.
... A test case for posinset and setsize when they are not all
present.
... We'll leave this one as-is until next week.
ISSUE-700/ACTION-1544/ACTION-1546: (Rich, Cynthia, David, Alex)
Mapping of role rowgroup.
<clown> ISSUE-700?
<trackbot> ISSUE-700 -- Discuss rowgroup, tbody, and thead in
aapis -- open
<trackbot> [25]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/700
[25] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/700
RS: Are we back to this again?
JS: It's never been resolved.
... I did contact James Craig for his take on it.
... I had asked what happens if the tbody is
focusable/clickable and actually does something?
... He responded that then we do not treat it as a table.
... Which suprised me.
... So I started making a test case with a table that has a
focusable tbody.
... I'm still working on it, but it's a train schedule.
... And I needed the tbody elements for morning, midday, and
evening
... And they are clickable so the unwanted times can be hidden.
... I looked at the result in Safari and it was still a table,
but the tbody elements were not there.
... So now I need to follow up with James.
... Do you all think that's a legit use of tbody?
JD: Why would it not be legit?
JS: I think it is.
... In the past we said they are not to be exposed unless they
are focusable or otherwise interactive.
<clown> action-1544?
<trackbot> action-1544 -- Cynthia Shelly to Document rowgroup
mappings for ie 11 for both uia express and uia -- due
2015-02-03 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[26]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1544
[26] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1544
<clown> action-1546?
<trackbot> action-1546 -- David Bolter to Make sure the
rowgroup mapping for msaa/ia2 is accurate -- due 2014-12-23 --
OPEN
<trackbot>
[27]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1546
[27] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1546
[28]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Apr/00
42.html
[28] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Apr/0042.html
JS: That's (the above linked message) is the one.
... (Reads from text in that message)
... But I'm talking about a well-formed grid with interactive
rowgroups, or in the case of tables interactive tbodys.
... So I will follow up, posting my example.
... And I'll make another one with rowgroup rather than tbody.
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Alex to Propose MSAA + IA2 mapping for
aria-placeholder. [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2015/04/21-aapi-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Cynthia to propose UIA Express and UIA mappings
for aria-placeholder. [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2015/04/21-aapi-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Joanie to propose ATK/AT-SPI mappings for
aria-placeholder. [recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2015/04/21-aapi-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Joseph to ask Cynthia if UIA Express will be
abandoned, and do we want to keep the UIA Express column in the
mapping spec. [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2015/04/21-aapi-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Joseph to confirm with Jame Craig that the proper
AXAPI mapping of aria-placeholder is AXPlaceholderValue.
[recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2015/04/21-aapi-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: surkov to Propose MSAA + IA2 mapping for
aria-placeholder. [recorded in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2015/04/21-aapi-minutes.html#action05]
[End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 21 April 2015 20:15:26 UTC