Re: Confusion about role of dialog

I think embedding a role of document inside the dialog box and placing
focus on it would give the author the needed experience for the AT. This is
far better than what we have had on Windows desktops. This worked well as
you stated in CKEditor.

Rich Schwerdtfeger
CTO Accessibility Software Group



From:	Matthew King/Fishkill/IBM@IBMUS
To:	W3C WAI-XTECH <wai-xtech@w3.org>
Date:	02/02/2011 08:50 AM
Subject:	Re: Confusion about role of dialog
Sent by:	wai-xtech-request@w3.org



Sailesh,

I can appreciate the focus on the basics -- keep it simple.

However, while the most common dialog may be a message or simple type of
interaction, I can not think of any good reason to put such constraints on
dialogs. There are many good reasons for dialogs that handle complex tasks
and communicate significant amounts of structured information. For
example, dialogs that contain tabbed interfaces that themselves contain
both controls and significant static content are common and need to be
properly supported.

> Browsers and assistive technologies will never be up to the
> challenge of exposing their structure and relationships reliably in
> all circumstances. So assistive technology-support may not be
> attainable to be WCAG-2 compliant.

I wonder what you mean by this. There is no reason we can not expect, over
time,  extremely robust support for the entire ARIA specification in both
browsers and assistive technologies. Will there be fringe cases where
someone did something mind-bendingly ridiculous? Of course. So, when you
say "all" this may be strictly true. But I see the robustness of
accessibility provided to web apps by browsers and AT having the potential
to far surpass that we have become accustom to in the desktop world.

Matt King
IBM I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement
Phone: (503) 578-23329, Tie line: 731-7398
mattking@us.ibm.com



Sailesh Panchang <sailesh.panchang@deque.com>
Sent by: wai-xtech-request@w3.org
02/01/2011 06:49 PM

To
Victor Tsaran <vtsaran@yahoo-inc.com>
cc
James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com>, James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>,
W3C WAI-XTECH <wai-xtech@w3.org>
Subject
Re: Confusion about role of dialog






>How would you suggest presenting a dialog to the user which contains
content >which requires screen reader features such as table mode in order
to be useful?
I'll suggest stepping back and reconsider the need for such an
interface. A dialog is meant to work like a pop up i.e. interrupting
the task at hand to display an essential message and request user's
acknowledgement via OK / Cancel button. Another scenario is where a
dialog allows  the user to input  data into a few fields so that the
main task at hand can continue. A data table (simple or irregular /
complex)  is meant to convey data relationships that are a trifle
involved (complex) to be included within a dialog. It requires  an
object of role=table to be embedded inside an object with a
role=dialog. Well one can let imagination loose and have more nested
objects (or widgets, if you prefer) within this construct. Browsers
and assistive technologies will never be up to the challenge of
exposing their structure and relationships reliably in all
circumstances. So assistive technology-support may not be attainable
to be WCAG-2 compliant.
So step back and reconsider if a table really needs to be within a
dialog or some other interface merits consideration in the interests
of simplicity and accessibility if this is indeed the need.
Rightho,
Sailesh Panchang
Director, Accessibility Services
Deque Systems
www.deque.com


 On 2/1/11, Victor Tsaran <vtsaran@yahoo-inc.com> wrote:
> This is how Windows screen readers dealt with dialogs for ever. If you
> wanted to read static text inside them, you had to use some kind of
review
> cursor. Having a table inside a dialog is a new kind of interaction, I
> agree, but screen readers already know how to deal with tables.
> Additionally, in my view, if the dialog follows ARIA spec, then the
tables
> should as well.
>
>
> From: James Nurthen [mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 7:52 PM
> To: Victor Tsaran
> Cc: James Craig; W3C WAI-XTECH
> Subject: Re: Confusion about role of dialog
>
> Victor - so do you not think that this is a JAWS bug? How would you
suggest
> presenting a dialog to the user which contains content which requires
screen
> reader features such as table mode in order to be useful?
>
> Regards,
> James
>
>
> On Jan 31, 2011, at 7:27 PM, Victor Tsaran wrote:
>
>
> The dialog may not be useful outside of the virtual buffer, so I do see
jaws
> side. It's different for safari, of course, because there's no concept
of
> vb.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:02 PM, "James Craig"
> <jcraig@apple.com<mailto:jcraig@apple.com>> wrote:
> I would agree that this is a JAWS bug.
>
>
> On Jan 31, 2011, at 7:26 AM, James Nurthen wrote:
>
>
> We have noticed that when using a role of dialog JAWS is going into
> application mode. Is this correct behaviour or a JAWS bug? I see nothing
in
> the spec which states that this should happen.
>
> If this is NOT a JAWS bug, what role should we be using for a generic
dialog
> container which may contain content (such as tables) as well as actions
> (buttons).
> --
> Regards, James
>
> <oracle_sig_logo.gif><http://www.oracle.com/>
> James Nurthen | Project Lead, Accessibility
> Phone: +1 6505066781<tel:+1%206505066781> | Mobile: +1
> 4159871918<tel:+1%204159871918>
> Oracle Corporate Architecture
> 500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood City, CA 94065
> <green-for-email-sig_0.gif><http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is
> committed to developing practices and products that help protect the
> environment
>
>
>