drag'n'drop is a presentational mode for copy/cut-and-paste (was Re: drag'n'drop is grab'n'drop for non-visual users)

so, then, drag'n'drop is ONLY a visual manifestation of copy/cut-and-
paste?

if they both use the same API, i would say: keep copy/cut-and-paste and
all its associations and baggage intact, and get rid of drag'n'drop, 
because drag'n'drop is a presentational means of providing the comfort
that a screen reader can when it is set to articulate common commands,
so that the user, hearing "copied" and "pasted" knows (a) that she has
selected the objects she intended to select, and (b) moved them to a 
designated or desired target, just as a visual representation of the 
objects being "dragged" provides the sighted user with the confidence 
and comfort of visually reinforcing that the programmatic command 
(copy/cut-and-paste) has been successfully performed....

so, drag'n'drop is purely a visual manifestation of the copy/cut 
and paste operation...  isn't, therefore, support for drag'n'drop 
better controlled via the operating system?  i don't know about all 
GUI interfaces, but i know of at least 2 where one can turn support 
for "show items as they are being moved" OFF)

and, if drag'n'drop is merely a way of describing a visual paradigm,
then i suggest it be stricken from the ARIA spec

gregory.
-------------------------------------------------------
lex parsimoniae:
  * entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
-------------------------------------------------------
the law of succinctness:
  * entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity.
-------------------------------------------------------
Gregory J. Rosmaita, oedipus@hicom.net
         Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/
-------------------------------------------------------

---------- Original Message -----------
From: "Charles McCathieNevile" <chaals@opera.com>
To: "Ian Hickson" <ian@hixie.ch>, "Sean Hayes" <Sean.Hayes@microsoft.com>
Cc: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>, "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-
xtech@w3.org>, "w3c-wai-pf@w3.org" <w3c-wai-pf@w3.org>
Sent: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:46:53 +1100
Subject: Re: drag'n'drop is grab'n'drop for non-visual users

> On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 09:43:49 +1100, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch> wrote:
> 
> >
> > On Mon, 5 Jan 2009, Sean Hayes wrote:
> >>
> >> maybe I'm missing something obvious, but how is this different to 
copy
> >> (or cut) and paste?
> >
> > FWIW, in HTML5 copy-and-paste and drag-and-drop are exposed using the
> > exact same set of APIs and events.
> 
> And the long-neglected Clipboard Operations specification from 
> the Webapps  group (which is about to start being active again)
>  takes the same approach.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Chaals
> 
> -- 
> Charles McCathieNevile  Opera Software, Standards Group
>      je parle français -- hablo español -- jeg lærer norsk
> http://my.opera.com/chaals       Try Opera: http://www.opera.com
------- End of Original Message -------

Received on Thursday, 8 January 2009 20:48:59 UTC