- From: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com>
- Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 19:15:18 +0100
- To: "John Foliot - WATS.ca" <foliot@wats.ca>
- CC: W3C WAI-XTECH <wai-xtech@w3.org>, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
Re: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Apr/0230.html John Foliot wrote: > based upon your perspective of a sighted user who uses a > text only browser with frequency, you appear (to me) to be invoking your > perception into the spec unevenly. Specifically I point to your verbose > @alt values, both in this example as well as examples in the current draft > specification. However countless others have noted on numerous occasions > that when it comes to images, many (most? all?) non-sighted users wish to > choose between a verbose or terse description, similar to 'glancing at an > image' vs. 'studying an image'. This is an important distinction which > seems to be lost here. [snip] > Oh, so the specification is being written then based upon your personal > perspective and annoyance level? Ian, you constantly talk about use-cases > and 'proof' and examples in the wild - that opinion alone is not sufficient. > Yet because you consider a brief descriptor of an image coupled with an > optional longer, verbose text potentially annoying to you, you dismiss it as > non-viable? Outside of your personal experience, do you have any proof that > the majority share your opinion? > > While not 'conclusive', WebAIM's survey results (and interpretations) of > screen reader users state: > "The tendency toward the briefer alternative [text] also increased slightly > with screen reader proficiency" > [http://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey/#images] > > Given those findings, I will suggest my 'opinion' is based upon more than my > personal preference, and seems to directly contradict your opinion. John, I doubt the WebAIM survey results are worth citing as evidence on this particular topic. Leaving aside the thorny questions of how far the survey is representative of typical screen reader users and the question of whether the "slight.." difference under discussion is statistically significant (the published data doesn't allow us to say), I think there's a mismatch between the question posed in the survey and how you're using the results. Users were asked whether they preferred "Photo of The White House" or "The White House" as "alt" text. The long text is only three syllables longer than the short text. I'd suggest that respondents' view of whether the word "photo" provided useful information was at least as much a factor in how people answered the question as the marginal difference in length. Some users may have felt that the category of image (photo? painting? sketch?) was irrelevant; some users may have felt that the category of image could be guessed from the context; some users may have felt that the image sounded irrelevant and that, in the absence of blank "alt", a short "alt" was preferable. Also, the question did not imply that if "The White House" was supplied as "alt" text then "Photo of The White House" would be made available as a longer description. So even if this response indicated users preferred short alternatives, it would be problematic to use this response as indicating that what users want is short alternatives _and_ long alternatives, rather than one alternative that keeps to the point. (A good control question might leave out "img" and involve users choosing between some concise text and some prolix text that says more or less the same thing!) I doubt there's an advantage for short text that leaves out useful detail when you're just reading through a page lineally. Why summarize an "img" element but not a "p" element? Most of the time, you're going to need to expand both to understand the page, in which case you've just given the user more to process. However, I can imagine moving from "img" to "img" trying to find the image you want, and that short titles for those images could be useful so you didn't need to listen to a full alternative. But is "alt" - intended for alternatives - really the best attribute to use for such short titles? Might the "title" attribute be a better way to provide such them, or "aria-label" and "aria-labelledby" from ARIA? http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#the-title-attribute http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/#nameref -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
Received on Sunday, 26 April 2009 18:15:55 UTC