Re: [DHTML Style Guide] Oliver Keim's comments on drag and drop proposal

Originally posted to PFWG mailing list by Oliver Keim.

Hi Joseph,

 > If you mean making copies of files in the Finder using a keyboard, 
then do this:
 > 1. select the files and/or folders you want to copy,
 > 2. Press "command+c",
 > 3. Navigate to the Finder window into which you want to copy the 
files and folders.
 > 4. Press "command+v".

yes, but there is none for Cut and Paste.
Unfortunately, I need this one really often. And I am quite happy it 
works on Windows.
If you have the keystrokes for this one you would make me very happy.

 > Sort of the flip side:  ...

You are right, that is true. But there are applications that do follow 
this approach, more or less.

The thing is, that the focused application needs to check what's inside 
the clipboard. If there is a file reference and the application 
container is empty (no focused document) or a global control has the 
focus (not the document) a subsequent "paste" can indeed open the 
referenced file(s).

If the focus is within an document container the application may decide:
Within outlook you can simply paste files into any mail document. That 
also works within Office itself, often with the negative effect, that 
the intended effect is not correct: Copy an image file inside the 
explorer and paste it into a word document. Word 2000 added an embedded 
file (is that really what a user would expect? I am not sure about 
this). Was fixed with Office 2003, then it added the image into the 
document. (Same change or fix was applied to dropped files into a word 

Regarding Ctrl+c: Yes, that is true, this keystroke is generally treated 
as the foundation to "copy" things. Unfortunately. But if we are looking 
to extended features, we could imagine this: When doing an "paste 
special..,." command by issuing Shift+Ctrl+v, why not issuing a 
Shift+Ctrl+c for doing special commands, like "reference", "alias", 

The target area/component would then only offer a Ctrl+v, if the object 
in memory is accepted. Or both, so the user has the option to decide at 
the beginning or at the end of the action what he is intended to do.

My main concern was, that the drag and drop design and effect would 
differ from the clipboard design and effect and I would want to avoid 
this, since we then run into the problem that both models then need to 
be a) understood, b) the differences need to be understood as well and 
c) both cannot be used as simply as in finder or explorer.

The context menu is always used in addition, to have indirect access to 
the same kind of functionality as the hotkeys provide. The context menu 
should also be used to indicate hotkeys (which hotkey for which 
function) and the state of the function (available or not). I would 
therefore assume to always have Shift+F10 and ContextmenuKey (Windows 
keyboards) access.

BTW, does anyone know how you open a context menu on a Apple Mac using a 
keyboard? I am looking for this keystroke for ever.

Another topic would be helpful to address: Undo should be available in 
drag and drop/copy and paste enabled environments.

Regarding the meeting at 22:00h our time:
Do you have a toll-free phone number where I can call in? I would then 
appreciate to participate from home.
Thank you.

best regards, Oliver.

Received on Tuesday, 9 December 2008 15:57:55 UTC