- From: Al Gilman <Alfred.S.Gilman@IEEE.org>
- Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:18:38 -0400
- To: Mark Birbeck <mark.birbeck@x-port.net>
- Cc: W3C WAI-XTECH <wai-xtech@w3.org>, public-pfwg-comments@w3.org, XHTML WG <public-xhtml2@w3.org>
On 7 Apr 2008, at 1:56 PM, Mark Birbeck wrote: > > Hello all, > > I've been asked to forward these comments to those involved in ARIA. > Obviously I am happy to do that, but I would just say that I think > some of my comments relate to exactly what @role is all about, and > therefore raise some conceptual issues. > > In other words, I think there may need to be some parallel discussion > over on the XHTML 2 list, about exactly how the values that are > 'imported' into the XHTML vocab list should be structured. [disclaimer: haven't reviewed the archives for any such. I just have a few clarifications to suggest, not an exhaustive response.] > > Regards, > > Mark > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Mark Birbeck <mark.birbeck@x-port.net> > Date: 2008/4/5 > Subject: Re: Role attribute values > To: Shane McCarron <shane@aptest.com> > Cc: XHTML WG <public-xhtml2@w3.org>, Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org> > > Hi Shane, > > I just read this really quickly so these are not all of my comments, > but here are a few quick ones. > > 1. Having 'double names' seems to be redundant, and reduce the > potential usefulness. An example would be @role="alertdialog", which > can be just as easily expressed as @role="alert dialog". This is more > useful from a processing point of view, and also reduces the size of > the vocabulary. Maybe "more useful" and "more burdensome" are consistent. Our participants doing the processing got us to use the agglutenated names rather than process @role values as a tuple space. These compound rolenames are there because we accepted a premise that the processing model would only require the user agent to handle one widget role (a role with behavioral connotations) at one time. <quote cite="http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/#uaconf"> If the token matches a role as defined in this specification, use this token as the ARIA role and end processing of the value. </quote> The API bindings as presently contemplated would not process @role="alert dialog" correctly. > 3. Qualifying a name based on its context also seems to reduce the > potential usefulness of a name. For example, just because a > 'gridcell' > is most likely to be used in a 'grid', doesn't mean that is the only > place there will be 'cells'. That causes a problem in the future, > because it means authors either have to use 'gridcell' outside of the > context of a 'grid'--which would seem awkward--or they would have to > invent some new role name for 'a cell'. Yet if we call this thing > 'cell' instead of 'gridcell' from the beginning, we'll not have this > problem. The gridcell has context semantics in terms of how you navigate to it. The rules for some future context-unaware cell are unknown. HTML principle: solve real problems. The real problem we have is for cells in a rectangular grid with 2D navigation. > 4. Some things seem to be oddly named. Why is a range control named a > 'slider'? That points very much towards a specific style of UI > rendering, and doesn't really speak to accessibility. Also, since a > 'spinbutton' is described as a range control, why not make it an > actual range control? These widgets are more concrete than you are used to thinking. See remark about "GUI bagggage" in reply to Roland. > Also, unrelated to the content, why are some of the properties marked > up as having a datatype of xsd:string? If it's to inhibit the > rdf:XMLLiteral processing, wouldn't it be better to just use > @datatype="", and get a plain literal? This is a technical difference we will need to understand better before responding. That is I'm not convinced we fully understand the difference between "a plain literal" and an xsd:string. Al > Regards, > > Mark > > 2008/4/4 Shane McCarron <shane@aptest.com>: > > >> >> Thanks to the hard work of Michael Cooper, the current list of >> ARIA-defined >> roles is now included in the XHTML vocabulary document at >> http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab >> >> While doing this, he and I noticed that there is some duplication >> between >> ARIA-defined roles and XHTML module-defined roles. This was of >> course >> unintentional. My proposal would be that we harmonize these lists >> as soon >> as possible - preferably by removing any role values that the ARIA >> group >> thinks are unnecessary. Since the list came from them in the >> first place, >> and was just updated by them a few weeks ago, this makes the most >> sense to >> me. >> >> This is not urgent, and we can update this document as we need >> to. But I >> didn't want to lose the thread. Roland, can you please put this >> on the >> agenda for next Wednesday? >> >> -- >> Shane P. McCarron Phone: +1 763 786-8160 >> x120 >> Managing Director Fax: +1 763 786-8180 >> ApTest Minnesota Inet: shane@aptest.com >> >> >> >> > > > > -- > Mark Birbeck > > mark.birbeck@x-port.net | +44 (0) 20 7689 9232 > http://www.x-port.net | http://internet-apps.blogspot.com > > x-port.net Ltd. is registered in England and Wales, number 03730711 > The registered office is at: > > 2nd Floor > Titchfield House > 69-85 Tabernacle Street > London > EC2A 4RR > > > > -- > Mark Birbeck > > mark.birbeck@x-port.net | +44 (0) 20 7689 9232 > http://www.x-port.net | http://internet-apps.blogspot.com > > x-port.net Ltd. is registered in England and Wales, number 03730711 > The registered office is at: > > 2nd Floor > Titchfield House > 69-85 Tabernacle Street > London > EC2A 4RR >
Received on Thursday, 10 April 2008 17:19:22 UTC