- From: David Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net>
- Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:30:42 -0500
- To: T.V Raman <raman@google.com>
- Cc: aleventh@us.ibm.com, Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com, gez.lemon@gmail.com, wai-xtech@w3.org
TV, What does this mean? On Feb 23, 2007, at 10:50 AM, T.V Raman wrote: the keybinding is in the noise. Aaron M Leventhal writes: > There is another difference between links and buttons though. > > Links don't accept the space bar to activate them. Buttons do. > > Yes semantically they're similar and one could inherit from the > other in > the wairole hierarchy, but it needs it's own role. > > - Aaron > > Aaron Leventhal > IBM web accessibility architect > Voice: 781-583-4083 > Tie line: 364-5945 > http://www.mozilla.org/access > > > > > "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> > Sent by: wai-xtech-request@w3.org > 02/22/2007 07:03 PM > > To > gez.lemon@gmail.com > cc > Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com, wai-xtech@w3.org > Subject > Re: popups to provide more information > > > > > > > > > Better yet -- but along the same lines, in the Web context, it > might be useful to think of role:link as a specialized "button". > > Button is actually a "trigger" --- a thing that when activated > executes an action. > > Links on the Web -- including html:a -- the beloved anchor > element -- are in fact specialized triggers > that have a default event handler for event dom:activate; the > event handler follows the link --- and since this is a "builtin" > behavior, devleopers never need write that event handler. > > Modeled this way, anchor links whose default behavior gets > overridden by an onclick attribute i.e. the > <a href="#" onclick="javascript:mumble">click me </a> > also fall into place correctly. > > Aside: I still consider the above href="#" an abomination --- but > one that is sadly here to stay. > > Gez Lemon writes: >> >> Hi Becky, >> >>> One issue that comes up is should this be implemented as a link or a >>> button. The yahoo example implements this as a link. I would >>> surmise > that >>> is done so the link will still work if scripting is not available. > But >>> the link also has a visual indicator next to it of a small double > down >>> arrow, I assume to indicate that it opens a popup. My first > question is >>> should this be given a role of link or button? Using button gives > the >>> opportunity to also include the haspopup property. >> >> I think in this case, a link would be the correct choice. I think >> buttons should be reserved for explicit commands, such as "Sort", >> "Search", "Filter", etc, and that links are the correct choice when >> fetching a resource. Web applications tend to blur this distinction, >> so although clicking on a link in this example executes the >> command to >> gather the collection of related articles, as far as the visitor is >> concerned, it's fetching a resource (the collection of articles). I >> favour using a role of link, and allowing the haspopup property on >> anchor elements. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Gez >> >> On 22/02/07, Becky Gibson <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com> wrote: >>> >>> I'm going to borrow an example from Yahoo to discuss the appropriate > roles >>> and behavior to use for popups. Some yahoo pages have a link that > will >>> use Ajax to make a search request for more information and display > the >>> resulting links in a popup on the page. Find and click on the Iran > and >>> Iraq links in this page: >>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070215/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ >>> iraq_070215121462. >>> A popup is displayed that contains more information. Focus is not >>> put > into >>> the popup but with focus on the link that invokes the popup you can > tab >>> into the bottom of the popup by pressing shift-tab. The popup > contains >>> help and close links at the top of the popup as well as links to >>> more >>> information and some structural links. >>> >>> This is probably a good example for ARIA live regions but since > support >>> for those will not be available until Firefox 3 I would like to > consider >>> implementations that can be used in Firefox today. >>> >>> One issue that comes up is should this be implemented as a link or a >>> button. The yahoo example implements this as a link. I would >>> surmise > that >>> is done so the link will still work if scripting is not available. > But >>> the link also has a visual indicator next to it of a small double > down >>> arrow, I assume to indicate that it opens a popup. My first > question is >>> should this be given a role of link or button? Using button gives > the >>> opportunity to also include the haspopup property. Currently > haspopup is >>> only available on buttons and menus. I think we should encourage > ARIA to >>> allow the haspopup property on any element. >>> >>> My other proposed behavior for this type of more information popup > is: >>> 1) the popup should get the role of dialog >>> 2) focus should be placed into the popup when it is opened >>> 3) the popup should be made modal via scripting - focus can not >>> leave > the >>> dialog except by clicking another link or closing it >>> 4) the popup can be closed by pressing escape or via a close button >>> >>> thoughts? >>> >>> Becky Gibson >>> Web Accessibility Architect >>> >>> IBM Emerging Internet Technologies >>> 5 Technology Park Drive >>> Westford, MA 01886 >>> Voice: 978 399-6101; t/l 333-6101 >>> Email: gibsonb@us.ibm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> _____________________________ >> Supplement your vitamins >> http://juicystudio.com > > -- > Best Regards, > --raman > > Title: Research Scientist > Email: raman@google.com > WWW: http://emacspeak.sf.net/raman/ > Google: tv+raman > GTalk: raman@google.com, tv.raman.tv@gmail.com > PGP: http://emacspeak.sf.net/raman/raman-almaden.asc > > > > > <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">There is another difference between > links and buttons though.</font> > <br> > <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Links don't accept the space bar to > activate them. Buttons do.</font> > <br> > <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Yes semantically they're similar > and > one could inherit from the other in the wairole hierarchy, but it > needs > it's own role.</font> > <br> > <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">- Aaron</font> > <br> > <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Aaron Leventhal<br> > IBM web accessibility architect<br> > Voice: 781-583-4083<br> > Tie line: 364-5945<br> > http://www.mozilla.org/access<br> > </font> > <br> > <br> > <br> > <table width=100%> > <tr valign=top> > <td width=40%><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>"T.V > Raman" <raman@google.com></b> > </font> > <br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Sent by: wai-xtech- > request@w3.org</font> > <p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">02/22/2007 07:03 PM</font> > <td width=59%> > <table width=100%> > <tr valign=top> > <td> > <div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">To</font></div> > <td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">gez.lemon@gmail.com</font> > <tr valign=top> > <td> > <div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">cc</font></div> > <td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com, > wai-xtech@w3.org</font> > <tr valign=top> > <td> > <div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Subject</font></div> > <td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Re: popups to provide more > information</font></table> > <br> > <table> > <tr valign=top> > <td> > <td></table> > <br></table> > <br> > <br> > <br><tt><font size=2><br> > <br> > Better yet -- but along the same lines, in the Web context, it<br> > might be useful to think of role:link as a specialized > "button".<br> > <br> > Button is actually a "trigger" --- a thing that when > activated<br> > executes an action.<br> > <br> > Links on the Web -- including html:a -- the beloved anchor<br> > element -- are in fact specialized triggers <br> > that have a default event handler for event dom:activate; > the<br> > event handler follows the link --- and since this is a > "builtin"<br> > behavior, devleopers never need write that event handler.<br> > <br> > Modeled this way, anchor links whose default behavior gets<br> > overridden by an onclick attribute i.e. the <br> > <a href="#" > onclick="javascript:mumble">click > me </a><br> > also fall into place correctly.<br> > <br> > Aside: I still consider the above href="#" an abomination > --- > but<br> > one that is sadly here to stay.<br> > <br> > Gez Lemon writes:<br> > > <br> > > Hi Becky,<br> > > <br> > > > One issue that comes up is should this be implemented as > a link > or a<br> > > > button. The yahoo example implements this as a > link. I > would surmise that<br> > > > is done so the link will still work if scripting is not > available. > But<br> > > > the link also has a visual indicator next to it of a > small double > down<br> > > > arrow, I assume to indicate that it opens a popup. > My > first question is<br> > > > should this be given a role of link or button? Using > button gives the<br> > > > opportunity to also include the haspopup property.<br> > > <br> > > I think in this case, a link would be the correct choice. I > think<br> > > buttons should be reserved for explicit commands, such as > "Sort",<br> > > "Search", "Filter", etc, and that links > are the > correct choice when<br> > > fetching a resource. Web applications tend to blur this > distinction,<br> > > so although clicking on a link in this example executes the > command > to<br> > > gather the collection of related articles, as far as the visitor > is<br> > > concerned, it's fetching a resource (the collection of > articles). > I<br> > > favour using a role of link, and allowing the haspopup > property on<br> > > anchor elements.<br> > > <br> > > Best regards,<br> > > <br> > > Gez<br> > > <br> > > On 22/02/07, Becky Gibson > <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com> wrote:<br> > > ><br> > > > I'm going to borrow an example from Yahoo to discuss the > appropriate > roles<br> > > > and behavior to use for popups. Some yahoo pages > have > a link that will<br> > > > use Ajax to make a search request for more information > and display > the<br> > > > resulting links in a popup on the page. Find and > click > on the Iran and<br> > > > Iraq links in this page:<br> > > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070215/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ > iraq_070215121462.<br> > > > A popup is displayed that contains more information. > Focus is > not put into<br> > > > the popup but with focus on the link that invokes the popup > you can tab<br> > > > into the bottom of the popup by pressing shift-tab. > The > popup contains<br> > > > help and close links at the top of the popup as well as > links > to more<br> > > > information and some structural links.<br> > > ><br> > > > This is probably a good example for ARIA live regions > but since > support<br> > > > for those will not be available until Firefox 3 I would > like > to consider<br> > > > implementations that can be used in Firefox today.<br> > > ><br> > > > One issue that comes up is should this be implemented as > a link > or a<br> > > > button. The yahoo example implements this as a > link. I > would surmise that<br> > > > is done so the link will still work if scripting is not > available. > But<br> > > > the link also has a visual indicator next to it of a > small double > down<br> > > > arrow, I assume to indicate that it opens a popup. > My > first question is<br> > > > should this be given a role of link or button? Using > button gives the<br> > > > opportunity to also include the haspopup property. > Currently > haspopup is<br> > > > only available on buttons and menus. I think we > should > encourage ARIA to<br> > > > allow the haspopup property on any element.<br> > > ><br> > > > My other proposed behavior for this type of more > information > popup is:<br> > > > 1) the popup should get the role of dialog<br> > > > 2) focus should be placed into the popup when it is > opened<br> > > > 3) the popup should be made modal via scripting - focus can > not leave the<br> > > > dialog except by clicking another link or closing it<br> > > > 4) the popup can be closed by pressing escape or via a > close > button<br> > > ><br> > > > thoughts?<br> > > ><br> > > > Becky Gibson<br> > > > Web Accessibility Architect<br> > > ><br> > > > IBM Emerging Internet Technologies<br> > > > 5 Technology Park Drive<br> > > > Westford, MA 01886<br> > > > Voice: 978 399-6101; t/l 333-6101<br> > > > Email: gibsonb@us.ibm.com<br> > > ><br> > > ><br> > > ><br> > > ><br> > > <br> > > <br> > > -- <br> > > _____________________________<br> > > Supplement your vitamins<br> > > http://juicystudio.com<br> > <br> > -- <br> > Best Regards,<br> > --raman<br> > <br> > Title: Research Scientist <br> > Email: raman@google.com<br> > WWW: http://emacspeak.sf.net/raman/<br> > Google: tv+raman <br> > GTalk: raman@google.com, tv.raman.tv@gmail.com<br> > PGP: http://emacspeak.sf.net/raman/raman-almaden.asc<br> > <br> > <br> > </font></tt> > <br> -- Best Regards, --raman Title: Research Scientist Email: raman@google.com WWW: http://emacspeak.sf.net/raman/ Google: tv+raman GTalk: raman@google.com, tv.raman.tv@gmail.com PGP: http://emacspeak.sf.net/raman/raman-almaden.asc
Received on Friday, 23 February 2007 23:31:08 UTC