- From: Gregory Rosmaita <gregory.rosmaita@gmail.com>
- Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 12:31:37 -0400
- To: wai-xtech@w3.org
- Cc: dave.pawson@gmail.com, gv@trace.wisc.edu, "David MacDonald" <befree@magma.ca>
this is a reaction to a thread on the w3c-wai-gl emailing list, which starts at (long URI warning) [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2006JulSep/0124.html] although this thread began on a specific list (the guidelines group's list, to be precise) i am addressing this post to ALL WAI working groups via the XTECH list, as the issue of use of the Q element to denote actual quotations is a cross-working group matter... in the post cited above, david macdonald wrote: quote I think we can easily address that concern. We introduce a failure technique that says: Failure: placing spaces between quotation marks and the text they are surrounding. Then we could use Cynthia's suggestion, and make using quotation marks a sufficient way to mark up quotations, *and* we could make sufficient technique that says using the <Q> element with CSS would be another way to meet the SC. unquote i can hardly believe that such an idea - that use of Q is optional and use of punctuation marks acceptable - is gaining momentum on the w3c-wai-gl list... we shouldn't be advising authors to use hacks such as character entities to denote quotations - the Q element exists for a very valid reason beyond formatting - in particular, it allows an author to place a quote in context by linking directly to a placeholder in a document... the Q element is more than merely a textual marker which replaces the character entity " or actual quotation marks - it is an element which can provide REAL context for the quoted text thanks to its attributes -- attributes that vastly contribute to the comprehensibility of related documents, entire web sites, hypertext or XML presentations, and online curricula: the promise of hypertext has always been that it would revolutionize the way individuals - especially individuals who cannot process printed material - read documents... the Q element does this by allowing the author to provide extra information below the surface - such as hyperlinks - which the reader can choose to take advantage of or ignore at his or her choice... the cite attribute of the Q element allows an author to specify a URI for the source of the quote without cluttering up the page - enhancing both the readability of the document containing the Q element and the ease of comprehension of the document by placing it in exact context by hyperlinking directly to the location in the original document from which the quote was taken... moreover, quotation marks aren't always used strictly for quotations - for example, a word or phrase may be encased in quotation marks to emphasize a certain word or phrase, as in: Finally, everything was back to "normal". quotes are also employed to denote emphasis, euphemism, and slash or ironic intent, as in the headline: Kane Found in Love Nest with "Dancer" THIS is where one would use character-entities to create the desired punctuation effect (opening and closing quotes) thus, the Q element makes clear that what's being dealt with is an actual quotation - which makes the Q element both a logical AND a semantically meaningful element.... an author might want to style the quoted text as italic or bold, or in different colors, by a font change, etc., instead of using quotation marks... of course, this should and would be controlled by use of CSS, but styling alone -- especially if embedded in a SPAN element -- cannot convey to the user a vital item of important information: namely, that this segment of text encased in the Q element is an actual quotation; thus, if the Q element is dropped, WCAG will have to be amended to REQUIRE quotation marks around quotations, which is a rotten idea because it would unnecessarily restrict an author's stylistic freedom... therefore, use of the Q element fits the needs and wants of both the author and the user: the author can style the contents of a Q in whatever way pleases him or fits in with the "look and feel" (there's another false quotation) of the resource, while the vital information that what is contained in the Q container it is an actual quotation is never lost... if Q isn't widely implemented, then isn't it the duty of ALL WAI working groups to promote, support, encourage - even demand - that it be implemented, through both our combined guidelines and our own practice, thereby providing the Education & Outreach group fodder with which to ensure that it will be implemented? likewise, screen reader and other AT developers who produce applications which can access information from the DOM, MUST be urged to enable exposure of the Q element Q could even be even more useful if an attribute was added that allowed an author to embed a "normal" citation information, such as src="Tolkein, The Two Towers, chapter 3, paragraph 22" as well as the URI... please WCAG, don't throw Q out with the bathwater, gregory. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Existentialism means that no one else can take a bath for you. -- Delmore Schwartz ----------------------------------------------------------------- Gregory.Rosmaita@gmail.com Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/ UBATS: United Blind Advocates for Talking Signs: http://ubats.org -----------------------------------------------------------------
Received on Thursday, 24 August 2006 16:31:41 UTC