- From: Jon Gunderson <jongund@uiuc.edu>
- Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 09:22:46 -0500
- To: Al Gilman <asgilman@iamdigex.net>, Tantek Çelik <tantek@cs.stanford.edu>, Doug Dominiak <doug.dominiak@openwave.com>
- Cc: WAI Cross-group list <wai-xtech@w3.org>, HTML WG <w3c-html-wg@w3.org>
Ideally the behavior of accesskeys should be configurable by the user and that the user agent should provide users with options on the behavior. I will add this a useful technique to the User Agent Accessibility Guidelines. But maybe this type of requirement should be considered by the HTML working group in a future recommendation. Jon At 11:21 PM 10/1/2002 -0400, Al Gilman wrote: >Let me throw in another curve ball, here. > >I think that one problem with ACCESSKEY is that it is amenable to >interpretation as >either of two kinds of service. > >One is a site-wide user interface extension. This is a verb like 'home' the >result of which is the same across the site, or like 'help' where the >mnemonic sense is the same even 'though sometimes it leaves you in a >context-sensitive resulting state. For these things, the activateImmediate >behavior is almost always what one wants. > >But the HTML markup does not limit its use to this case. The markup can be >used in a way where the user will almost certainly have the function and its >key binding in recall memory, but equally it can be used in ways where >they won't. > >The problem is that the optimum behavior is something that has to take into >account and balance the cost of input symbol activations and the risk of >erroneous function activations. Both device and disability contribute to >making either the cost of input symbol activation unusually high (motor >disability; mobile phone keypad) or the risk of erroneous function >activation unusually high (low/no vision; tremor). So there is no one bias >that fits all persons with disabilities, or others in varying situations or >delivery contexts. > >One thing to think about is to try to create two markup constructs which can >be divided between the two default behaviors (overridable in the User >Agent all >the same). > >One approach to this would be to have access keys bound to LINK elements >default >to justDoIt and access keys bound to A elements default to >focusAndWait. Maybe >that has continuity problems (small but annoying differences from existing >behavior patterns). But it gives an example of the kinds of things we might >think about. > >Al > > >At 05:41 PM 2002-10-01, Tantek Çelik wrote: > >>I actually agree precisely with the example of mobile devices that Doug >>presents and his reasoning. >> >>To that extent, I think it should not only be hyperlinks that have the >>"activate immediate" behavior on mobile devices. Buttons for example >>(<button>, <input type="button|submit|reset|radio|checkbox">) should also >>have that behavior. This will help with consistency for those UAs. >> >>I still think that for other interactive user agents (e.g. desktops, >>laptops, TVs), the "focus immediately" behavior is strongly preferred, and >>thus should be the default. >> >>I believe that the right thing to do is to add an exception clause to HTML4 >>for when rendering to a 'handheld' medium. E.g. >> >> "When presenting an HTML document to a mobile device (e.g. >>media='handheld'), typing an accesskey should focus _and_ activate the >>respective element, e.g. hyperlinks should be activated and navigated, and >>buttons should also be similarly activated." >> >>By tying this difference in behavior _precisely_ to the 'media' >>attribute/concept, it provides authors a single place to make distinctions >>regarding presentation and behavior when designing the interaction for >>various different media. It also provides clear guidance to user agent >>implementers. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Tantek >> >> >>On 10/1/02 1:46 PM, "Doug Dominiak" <doug.dominiak@openwave.com> wrote: >> >> > I would like to present the view of the mobile browser community and >> > say that we very much require the "activate immediately" behavior of >> > access keys as they relate to hyperlinks. With the usability of current >> > interfaces somewhat strained, every keystroke by the end user matters. >> > Movement of focus with the first keystroke followed by activation of >> > the link by the second is just not acceptable. >> > >> > The notion of allowing duplicate access key bindings is an interesting >> > one, though not at all compelling for the mobile browser space. I >> > don't think it motivates the "focus immediately approach", though I >> > appreciate Tantek's other 4 reasons. >> > >> > I feel strongly that "focus immediately" behavior of access key applied >> > to hyperlinks in mobile browsers in unacceptable and would not be >> > implemented, so I would like to see a solution that would avoid >> divergence. >> > >> > Thanks for your consideration. >> > >> > Regards, >> > Doug Dominiak >> > Openwave Systems >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Tantek Çelik" <tantek@cs.stanford.edu> >> > To: "Jon Gunderson" <jongund@uiuc.edu>; "Charles McCathieNevile" >> > <charles@w3.org> >> > Cc: "WAI Cross-group list" <wai-xtech@w3.org>; "HTML WG" >> <w3c-html-wg@w3.org> >> > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 11:42 AM >> > Subject: Re: activation / focus and users Re: Access Key >> > >> > >> >> >> >> It appears that we are talking about two different (but at times >> >> overlapping) communities of users. >> >> >> >> (1) Accessibility >> >> (2) Power Users >> >> >> >> I believe that while serving (1) very often indirectly serves (2) as >> well, >> >> (1) should take priority over (2) when conflicts arise, or when designing >> >> "default behaviors". >> >> >> >> I would assert that Charles' use of his "own case" and reference to >> >> efficiency places his example in (2). >> >> >> >> While I certainly understand the plea for efficiency, is there really >> that >> >> much difference in efficiency between: >> >> >> >> a) type accesskey (with modifier) >> >> b) type accesskey (with modifier) and press return >> >> >> >> ? >> >> >> >> As far as overuse of hands, consider that typical typist convention is to >> >> use the right pinky finger to press the return key, and the right pinky >> >> finger is one of the least used from a frequency of keypresses >> standpoint. >> >> >> >> I concur with Jon Gunderson's point about sequentially moving the focus >> >> among form controls/links with the same accesskey.[2] >> >> >> >> >> >> As far as changing implementations, this is specifically why I raised >> this >> >> issue as a necessary clarification to HTML4.[2] >> >> >> >> In IE5/Mac we implemented the "activate immediately" behavior of >> accesskey >> >> on hyperlinks based upon literal reading of the informative example(s) in >> >> HTML4. >> >> >> >> Given experience and understanding since, I think this was a mistake. >> >> >> >> >> >> I want to change this in our next major release to "focus immediately" >> >> behavior which will have the following advantages (raised by the >> >> participants in this discussion): >> >> >> >> a) consistent behavior between IE/Mac and IE/Windows (authors like that) >> >> b) consistent behavior among elements (users like that) >> >> c) ability to gracefully handle duplicate accesskeys by rotating focus >> >> d) ability to have focus event handlers actually do something on links >> >> e) increased safety by reducing the chance of accidental link activation >> >> >> >> The only argument/advantage that I have seen/heard for the "activate >> >> immediately" behavior is: >> >> >> >> a) greater efficiency >> >> >> >> Which I believe is not that much anyway, as explained above. >> >> >> >> The specific errata to HTML4 that I proposed to fix this is documented in >> >> [2]. >> >> >> >> If there is sufficient direction of opinion on this issue, would it be >> >> possible to achieve a consensus so I that I may move forward with making >> >> this change in our implementation in concert with that consensus? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Tantek >> >> >> >> [2] >> >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-wg/2002JulSep/0549.html >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Tantek >> Çelik tantek@cs.stanford.edu >> >> Tasman Development Lead, Microsoft >> Corporation tantekc@microsoft.com >> >> Representative to W3C CSS and HTML working groups >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> On 10/1/02 8:49 AM, "Jon Gunderson" <jongund@uiuc.edu> wrote: >> >> >> >>> >> >>> The other advantage of only moving focus is that if the same >> accesskey is >> >>> used multiple times on a page focus can move sequentially between >> the form >> >>> controls or links. >> >>> >> >>> The HTML spec [1] seems to indicate that links should be automatically >> >>> activated. But the two implementations of accesskey Internet >> Explorer 5.0+ >> >>> and Netscape Navigator 6.0+ differ on their interpretation. IE only >> moves >> >>> focus and NN moves focus and activates the link. Each technique has its >> >>> own advantages and disadvantages, but I think it would be better for the >> >>> user if browsers were consistent, and therefore the feature more >> >>> predictable for end users. But I guess this is a mute point since >> IE and >> >>> NN both do something different. I doubt either will change their >> >>> implementation. >> >>> >> >>> Jon >> >>> >> >>> [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#adef-accesskey >> >>> >> >>> At 11:27 AM 10/1/2002 -0400, Charles McCathieNevile wrote: >> >>>> What kind of users are we talking about here? >> >>>> >> >>>> It seems there is a consensus that there are some users for whom >> the focus >> >>>> then activate sequence is an important safety feature - people using >> >>>> primarily voice interaction, who may not remember all the access keys, >> >>>> people >> >>>> who are likely to bounce on keys by accident. >> >>>> >> >>>> My own case is different - I have a problem with overuse of my >> hands, but I >> >>>> can (normally) see a lot of information presented visually and it >> is rare >> >>>> that I hit the wrong key, or am surprised by what happened if I did. I >> >>>> believe there are a number of people in related situations (I know a >> >>>> handful >> >>>> personally) who appreciate the efficiency of the direct activation >> method >> >>>> above all. >> >>>> >> >>>> I presume there are people who are somewhere between the two - in some >> >>>> circumstances they appreciate the efficiency, but in other cases >> they want >> >>>> to >> >>>> use the safety feature. (This is also relevant to Jonny's comment about >> >>>> triggering focus events) >> >>>> >> >>>> Can anyone help provide more data about the user scenarios they are >> >>>> outlining? >> >>>> >> >>>> Cheers >> >>>> >> >>>> Chaals >> >>>> >> >>>> On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Jon Gunderson wrote (among other things): >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Accesskeys are important for allowing direct navigation to links >> and form >> >>>>> controls, especially web based applications that people use on a daily >> >>>>> basis. When I use accesskeys I always provide built-in >> documentation to >> >>>>> what accesskeys are available in addition to the underlining >> technique of >> >>>>> the key letter in the link or form label. We have developed a web >> based >> >>>>> database to keep track of disability services here at UIUC that uses >> >>>>> accesskeys and works very effectively to speed navigation for screen >> >>>>> reader >> >>>>> users. We have a internal link on each page to a list of the >> available >> >>>>> accesskeys on the page[1]. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> My criteria for accesskeys: >> >>>>> 3. I think moving focus is better than automatic activation (the >> IE rather >> >>>>> than NN way) >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Jon >> >>>>> >> >>>>> And at 10:14 PM 9/30/2002 +0200, Jonny Axelsson wrote (among other >> >>>>> things): >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Here is a collection of my opinions on accesskey. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I would agree with Tantek on the effect of triggering an accesskey. >> >>>> While it >> >>>>>> is more efficient to do actions with no confirmation, the risk of >> >>>> triggering >> >>>>>> an accesskey accidentally, together with the possibility that the >> >>>> action may >> >>>>>> be irreversible (like a POST or even a GET under some >> circumstances, or >> >>>> some >> >>>>>> scriptable control), has convinced me that giving the element >> focus is >> >>>>>> the >> >>>>>> best and most predictable alternative. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> While there are conflicting opinions on whether keyboard navigation >> >>>>>> should >> >>>>>> trigger events (navigating using a keyboard would normally >> traverse all >> >>>>>> intervening elements on the way to the target, you would not want to >> >>>> trigger >> >>>>>> those elements), accesskey should trigger a focus event. It is the >> >>>>>> keyboard >> >>>>>> equivalent to point and click (or rather point and mousedown). >> >>>>>> >> >>> >> >>> Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP >> >>> Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology >> >>> Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services >> >>> MC-574 >> >>> College of Applied Life Studies >> >>> University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign >> >>> 1207 S. Oak Street, Champaign, IL 61820 >> >>> >> >>> Voice: (217) 244-5870 >> >>> Fax: (217) 333-0248 >> >>> >> >>> E-mail: jongund@uiuc.edu >> >>> >> >>> WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund >> >>> WWW: http://www.w3.org/wai/ua >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services MC-574 College of Applied Life Studies University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign 1207 S. Oak Street, Champaign, IL 61820 Voice: (217) 244-5870 Fax: (217) 333-0248 E-mail: jongund@uiuc.edu WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund WWW: http://www.w3.org/wai/ua
Received on Wednesday, 2 October 2002 10:16:32 UTC