- From: Richards, Jan <jrichards@ocad.ca>
- Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 20:13:27 +0000
- To: WAI-ua <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Hi all, Sorry that I had to go before the User Style Sheet discussion... I can see the usefulness to savvy users... ...but perhaps support for user style sheets is an implementation technique for a more general requirement, which is that end-users have final control of the visual display (an extension of 1.4.1 that currently covers just a few text attributes). If we leave the SC as is, it means that a browser that included fine-grained user control through its settings would fail UAAG if it did not support user style sheets as well. Cheers, Jan -- (Mr) Jan Richards, M.Sc. jrichards@ocad.ca | 416-977-6000 ext. 3957 | fax: 416-977-9844 Inclusive Design Research Centre (IDRC) | http://idrc.ocad.ca/ Faculty of Design | OCAD University > -----Original Message----- > From: w3c-wai-ua-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ua-request@w3.org] On > Behalf Of Jim Allan > Sent: September 15, 2011 2:42 PM > To: WAI-ua > Subject: minutes: UAWG call 15 september 2011 > > from: http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-ua-minutes.html > > User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference > 15 Sep 2011 > > See also: IRC log http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-ua-irc > Attendees > > Present > Jim_Allan, +1.425.883.aaaa, Jan, +1.609.734.aabb, Jeanne, > Greg_Lowney, Mark, Kelly, Kim_Patch > Regrets > MarkkuH, SimonH > Chair > jimAllan, KellyFord > Scribe > jallan > > Contents > > Topics > Register for TPAC http://www.w3.org/2011/11/TPAC/ > review CSS3 > Mobile a11y > survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/abc/ > 1.7.x Save copies of style sheets: > 1.7y The user agent can inform the user when the author style > sheet has changed > Summary of Action Items > > Summary of Action Items > [NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to add new SC 1.7.x to document. See minutes of > 15 September [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-ua-minutes.html#action02] > [NEW] ACTION: jeanne to add the above examples to 2.1.1 Change the > user names. [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-ua-minutes.html#action03] > [NEW] ACTION: mark to come back with proposal for diff of css by UA or > kill the SC [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-ua-minutes.html#action01] > > <trackbot> Date: 15 September 2011 > > <kford> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai- > ua/2011JulSep/0010.html > > <kford> **ALL OF GL1 IS COMPLETE! > > <kford> 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.7 2.8 2.9 2.10 2.11 > > <kford> 3.1 3.2 3.3 3.4 > > <kford> 4.2 > > <kford> **ALL OF GL1 IS COMPLETE!! > > <kford> 2.5.1 discover keystrokes > > <kford> 2.7.1 - 7 preference settings > > <kford> 2.11.3, 2.11.4 execution placeholder and toggle > > <kford> 2.11.6 Stop/Pause/Resume Time-Based Media > > <kford> 2.11.7 Navigate Time-Based Media > > <kford> 2.11.8 Semantic Navigation of Time-Based Media > > <kford> 2.11.9 Track Enable/Disable of Time-Based Media > > <kford> 2.11.10 Sizing Playback Viewport: (examples) > > <kford> 2.11.11 Scale and position alternative media tracks (examples) > > <kford> 2.11.12 Adjust Playback Contrast and Brightness (examples) > **ALL GL3 IER ARE COMPLETE!!! > > <kford> 4.2.1 Hand-off Focus (intent) > > <kford> 4.2.3 Nested user agents (focus) (intent) **ALL OF GL5 IS > COMPLETE!! > > all: discussing the LCWD of Touch events standard > http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-Touch-Events-20110913/ > > <scribe> scribe: jallan > > kp: some utility to touch events. can combine unrelated modes to make > user more efficient. > Register for TPAC http://www.w3.org/2011/11/TPAC/ > > <Greg> Does the standard identify touch sources and targets and what > specific gestures each supports, e.g. drag, pinch, draw path? > > <Greg> That is, equivalent of identifying drag source and target. > > js: can register without paying. > > several not registered > > scribe: we will have a phone bridge > > kf: attend by phone. > > tpac registration for in person only, jeanne will set up a reg for > folks attending by phone. > > mh: change of affiliation, now with ETS. focus on accessibility. web > delivery and device delivery. > > in browser irc client http://irc.w3.org > review CSS3 > > js: pf has requested that UAWG review. > > http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/CSS/Spec_Review > > www.w3.org/css > Mobile a11y > > WAI has requested that UAWG review UAAG for mobile. need sub-group > > should cover smart phone and tablet. > > mobile review participants - mark (tablet), jeanne, kim, jim (?) > > gl: does this concern bandwidth, form factor (small screen), input > limitations (small, limited keyboard), local storage > > js: looking specifically at UA on mobile devices (interface, content > access). > survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/abc/ > 1.7.x Save copies of style sheets: > > 1.7.x Save copies of style sheets: The user can save copies of the > style sheets referenced by the current page, so that they can edit and > load them as user style sheets. (AA) > > gl: wanted the last clause to prevent binary downloads of css. > > ja: perhaps save as 'text' to prevent binary downloads. > > gl: need to be more global. what is the UI for this. user needs ready > access to this. user should be able to specify where it is save. > ... this should be included in the EIR. what is the minimum we have to > say in the SC/EIR to make it clear what we want the user to be able to > do. > > js: webkit implementation UI is good, FF is poor. > > kp: many user don't user tooks because of file management issues. want > this to be easy. > > kf: file management, unique to the UA or OS > > kp: if you can't find it, you won't us it. > > ja: e.g. stuff save in 'application data' hidden folder. > > mh: most every browser uses the standard system file handling > > <Greg> My example of a user-unfriendly implementation would be that > done by the Session Manager add-in for Firefox. It allows you to save > and restore the state of a session or window, and it saves it as a > text file, but it's hidden in an obscure location that's not told to > the user, and its in a JSON text format that users cannot easily edit. > > ja: is the AAA or AA > > AAA - MH, KF, JR, > > AA - JS, SH > > <mth> WAT http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html > > undecided - JA, GL > > AA - KP > > ja: most browsers allow user to save CSS. and their are plugins. > > js: adding to draft > 1.7y The user agent can inform the user when the author style sheet has > changed > > 1.7.y The user agent can inform the user when the author style sheet > has changed, so they can be warned that they may need to edit their > user style sheet accordingly > > kf: what is a change in the CSS? > > gl: specific css properties. > > kf: not happening. > > mh: mod to style sheet. if user made specific css for app, then author > changes css, and info disappears, then what? > > js: user CSS is tough, don't want to change. > > mh: but what if info vanishes and you don't know because of user css. > > js: on big sites, css is tweaked weekly, most invisible to the end > user. > > kp: if you at least have the info then you can do something about. > > kf: very technical, very difficult to compare documents. > > mh: since I was pushing this on the last call. need to adjust the ier. > > gl: perhaps mark can create scenarios. there may be a need. > > ja: suggest, talking with Wayne Dick in CA > > <scribe> ACTION: mark to come back with proposal for diff of css by UA > or kill the SC [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-ua-minutes.html#action01] > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-614 - Come back with proposal for diff of > css by UA or kill the SC [on Markku Hakkinen - due 2011-09-22]. > > <jeanne> ACTION: Jeanne to add new SC 1.7.x to document. See minutes > of 15 September [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-ua-minutes.html#action02] > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-615 - Add new SC 1.7.x to document. See > minutes of 15 September [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-09-22]. > > zakim: open item 3 > > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JulSep/0073.html > > http://www.csulb.edu/~wed/public/UAAG_2-1Comments-8-19-2011.html > > he was reviewing http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20- > 20110718/ > > reviewing first comment: Does the rendering include tool tips? Visual > readers with low vision (VR/LV) need alternative text for icons > especially. Currently the "title" attribute is displayed as a tooltip. > However, since the there is no guideline mandating use of "title" , > tooltips may or may not be present in WCAG conformant documents. > > gl: is this about UI or content? 'title' not well supported by AT or > speech input interface, nor touch interface. > ... have address this by saying everything should be accessible by > keyboard, do we need to say more. > ... if he reads this and is not sure that the GLs apply to > tooltips...do we need say more > > kf: tooltip from keyboard hasn't happened yet in UA. > > gl: tooltip is only used a couple of times in our document. > > ja: thinks browsers will leave it up to the author to write JS to make > tooltips keyboard accessible. > > js: perhaps we should answer by saying how we have covered it. > > <Greg> It looks like 1.1 gives users lots of power over when to > replace elements with their alternative content, but nothing about > allowing the user to have the alternative content presented to them in > a transient fashion e.g. by tooltips or other popups when requested. > > kp: tool tips used by mouse. usually provides keyboard short cuts, but > mouse users don't need it. keyboard users need it, but can't get at > it. > > gl: tooltips may need to be a new SC. > > kp perhaps need a tooltip example in 2.1.1 > > <Greg> Dick has low vision, and can't identify an icon so wants to be > able to read its alternative text. Most users would be able to hover > the mouse over the icon and have its alternative text displayed as a > pop-up or tooltip, but since Dick does not use a mouse, he can > activate a command that allows him to use the tab key to move the > keyboard focus to elements that have alternative content and... > > <Greg> ...then press another key to cause the pop-up to be displayed. > > ja: but since Dick does not use a mouse, when he arrows or tabs over > an item the 'title' element will display as a tooltip. > > discussing problems with tooltip popup in the OS. > > <Greg> Discussions of the pros and cons of automatically displaying > tooltips as the user moves the focus with the keyboard. > > gl: we don't need 1 UI to solve all problems. > > kf: uses tooltips from the keyboard in the OS as an argument for > tooltips in the browser. > > <Greg> Dick has low vision, and can't identify an icon so wants to be > able to read its alternative text. Most users would be able to hover > the mouse over the icon and have its alternative text displayed as a > pop-up ortooltip, but since Dick does not use a mouse, he can activate > a command that allows him to use the tab key to move the keyboard > focus to elements that have alternative content. Then,... > > <Greg> ...when he tabs to the icon, the browser may automatically > display the "hover" tooltip, or allow him to press a key to have it > displayed. > > kf: notes: OS tool tips can be modified in the OS, or turned off > > ja: problem with LV using magnification, when try to read tool tip and > move mouse the tooltip vanishes > > <KimPatch> Charlie is a speech-recognition user who cannot use his > hands to control his computer. It is much easier for him to use > keyboard shortcuts then click on an icon in a new program. He needs to > be able to see tooltips to discover keyboard shortcuts without having > to use the mouse. > > gl: my example should be for 2.1.1 > > <jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to add the above examples to 2.1.1 Change the > user names. [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-ua-minutes.html#action03] > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-616 - Add the above examples to 2.1.1 Change > the user names. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-09-22]. > > <mth> tried to call in again... conference is restricted > > <jeanne> mark, use this code 82942. I'll be right there. > > <mth> 82942 ok > > > [End of minutes] > > > -- > Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster > Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired > 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756 > voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/ > "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Thursday, 15 September 2011 20:14:03 UTC