- From: Jeanne Spellman <jeanne@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 14:41:27 -0400
- To: User Agent Working Group <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Minutes:
http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-ua-minutes
IRC Log:
http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-ua-irc
Action Items:
ACTION: jeanne to create a survey of dates when there could be
a Implementation Writer's Meeting
ACTION: Jeanne to send an email to the list with the links and
dates for reviewing the UAAG WD.
ACTION: JS to add 2.1.5 proposal to the document. From the
survey [29]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100615/. See
punctuation changes from Kim
ACTION: JS to update 3.12.3 with the proposal from Simon,
including the rewording in Greg's comments plus the Intent
paragraph.
[31]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100615/results#xq2. Change
the level to AA.
ACTION: JS to update 4.7.1 with the text from
[33]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010AprJun/0110.h
tml. The section "thereby..." is moved into the Intent
ACTION: SH to write intent and examples for text removed from
4.7.1 to intent section.
ACTION: SHarper to write intent and examples for text removed
from 4.7.1 to intent section.
Text of minutes:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
24 Jun 2010
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-ua-irc
Attendees
Present
Greg, Jeanne, Kelly, Kim, Simon, Patrick
Regrets
Jim, Mark
Chair
kelly
Scribe
Greg
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100615/
2. [5]Discuss Simon's proposal at
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010AprJun/0
110.html
3. [6]Tracking UAAG implementations
4. [7]Promoting most recent working draft and getting to last
call
5. [8]Report from Kim on Presentation
6. [9]Making Progress on implementation document
* [10]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 24 June 2010
<kford> /me Jeanne do you know the phone status?
<jeanne> no phone numbers from UK and FR.
<jeanne> you might as well make that the first item on the agenda.
<patrickhlauke> is the call still going ahead via zakim bridge?
<jeanne> yes, but only the US number is working
<patrickhlauke> it's not reading the code for some reason
<kford> Jeanne says the phone is still not working.
<jeanne> the US number is not taking the code? I know there is a
problem with the UK and FR numbers taking the code.
<patrickhlauke> nope not accepting the code from my end
<patrickhlauke> UK end
<kford> So, I think we are going to have to try skype.
<patrickhlauke> any alternative numbers?
<patrickhlauke> username patrick_h_lauke - boringly enough
<jeanne> 1 617.761.6200 is the US number
<patrickhlauke> yes i skype: patrick_h_lauke
<patrickhlauke> i'm set to only allow calls from contacts...kelly
you may have to quickly request to be my friend or something
<kford> group resolving phone and talking.
Survey [11]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100615/
[11] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100615/
#1 Proposal for 2.1.5. Implementation Document, from Simon
All votes are accept or neutral.
<jeanne> ACTION: JS to add 2.1.5 proposal to the document. From the
survey [12]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100615/. See
punctuation changes from Kim [recorded in
[13]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[12] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100615/.
<trackbot> Created ACTION-405 - Add 2.1.5 proposal to the document.
From the survey [14]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100615/.
See punctuation changes from Kim [on Jeanne Spellman - due
2010-07-01].
[14] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100615/.
#2 Proposal for 3.12.3 Provide alternative views, from Simon
Patrick asks if there are implementations. Simon knows of none yet.
Greg is wary of making it Level A with no good implementations, but
we can filter is at a later stage if there are still no
implementations.
Patrick agrees.
General agreement on Greg's proposed simplified wording of the SC
plus the Intent paragraph.
Kelly recommends reducing from Level A to AA.
Patrick agrees AA or AAA, noting it's really remedial for when the
content is badly designed and doesn't sufficiently convey the
information.
Simon would accept AA but would prefer not AAA.
Kelly notes that 508 Refresh includes WCAG through Level AA, meaning
AA no longer automatically means "ignore this" as it used to.
Simon suggests we should lead rather than follow, motivating UA
developers to add features they don't have yet.
Jeanne explains that W3 requires two real-world implementations for
each SC.
Patrick asks if we have info on how widespread the problem is
(content that cannot be used without this feature).
Greg suggests that the difference between A and AA is the latter is
for critical, base-level expectations.
Simon agrees with AA.
<jeanne> ACTION: JS to update 3.12.3 with the proposal from Simon,
including the rewording in Greg's comments plus the Intent
paragraph.
[15]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100615/results#xq2. Change
the level to AA. [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[15] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100615/results#xq2.
<trackbot> Created ACTION-406 - Update 3.12.3 with the proposal from
Simon, including the rewording in Greg's comments plus the Intent
paragraph.
[17]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100615/results#xq2. Change
the level to AA. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-07-01].
[17] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100615/results#xq2.
Kelly suggests including as AA and in future meeting discuss better
criteria and process for us to decide on level for SC.
Jeanne notes that WCAG found it very difficult to come up with hard
and fast rules.
<kford> issue: do we need to define how we reach our level ratings?
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-71 - Do we need to define how we reach our
level ratings? ; please complete additional details at
[18]http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/71/edit .
[18] http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/71/edit
Kim suggests that many UA have thumbnail views, as in Acrobat Reader
or PowerPoint, that she thinks would comply with this.
Greg wouldn't have though they would have complied, meaning that
it's still too ambiguous.
Discuss Simon's proposal at
[19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010AprJun/0110.html
[19]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010AprJun/0110.html
Simon explains that he was trying to simplify the original 3.3.1,
felt it was 3 separate issues, one about relationships was already
covered in 4.7.1.
For example, getting info on where you were in a table is similar to
learning where you are in a document hierarchy.
<sharper> 4.7.1 Access to Relationships which Aid Navigation:
Provide access to explicitly-defined relationships based on the
user's position in content, and the path of nodes leading from the
root of any content hierarchy to that position, thereby aiding
structured navigation by enhancing a users comprehension of their
position (e.g., show form control's label, show label's form
control, show a cell's table headers, etc.). (Level A)
Greg suggested starting with approving the high-level intent, and
general agreement.
Greg suggests moving the section "thereby..." into the Intent
section.
<jeanne> +1
No objections to moving the "thereby..." into Intent.
<kford> ACTION: SH to write intent and examples for text removed
from 4.7.1 to intent section. [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - SH
<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or
username (eg. sharper, shayes)
<jeanne> ACTION: JS to update 4.7.1 with the text from
[21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010AprJun/0110.h
tml. The section "thereby..." is moved into the Intent [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[21]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010AprJun/0110.html.
<trackbot> Created ACTION-407 - Update 4.7.1 with the text from
[23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010AprJun/0110.h
tml. The section "thereby..." is moved into the Intent [on Jeanne
Spellman - due 2010-07-01].
[23]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010AprJun/0110.html.
<kford> ACTION: SHarper to write intent and examples for text
removed from 4.7.1 to intent section. [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-ua-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-408 - Write intent and examples for text
removed from 4.7.1 to intent section. [on Simon Harper - due
2010-07-01].
Tracking UAAG implementations
Kelly: resuming discussion from a few weeks ago about how to record
which user agents implement which success criteria.
... Greg wrote a program to turn the document into a spreadsheet,
and Kelly tried to share that on live.com, but running into problems
with permissions, etc.
Kelly surveys the group on who has Live IDs.
He asked everyone to send him their Live IDs.
Kelly notes that he has not been able to successfully use Google
Docs with his screen reader.
Live.com would let him use Excel to edit the document rather than a
Web interface.
Some members are still using Excel 2003; Kelly will find out if
that's supported.
<patrickhlauke> simon suggests www.getdropbox.com
Kim notes Google Docs has version control and revision history,
which is good when a group is editing.
Kelly will send a sample spreadsheet to the list for people to look
at. He'll also look into distribution/sharing solutions as
discussed.
Promoting most recent working draft and getting to last call
Kelly congratulates everyone for getting the new working draft
published last week.
He stresses the need to recruit reviewers...now.
Jeanne notes that it really slows down the process if a document has
to go to last call twice, as in if too much feedback doesn't come in
until last call.
Jeanne and Kelly say comments should be in by July 29.
Discussion of how sometimes working group members can forward
comments from reviewers who wish to remain anonymous.
Report from Kim on Presentation
<jeanne> ACTION: Jeanne to send an email to the list with the links
and dates for reviewing the UAAG WD. [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-ua-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-409 - Send an email to the list with the
links and dates for reviewing the UAAG WD. [on Jeanne Spellman - due
2010-07-01].
Kim reports on her 5-minute presentation, where she gave three
specific users as test cases, and tied it to mainstream usability.
Everyone came up with use cases, with 7 total, broke into small
groups that created 19 that were then voted on.
Top three are: 1) speech commands are hard to remember, leading to
"adjust and shar"
2) Focus issues.
3) Undo.
Elements of two of those ended up in other proposals.
Elements of undo and redo, a participant pointed out other groups
had been working on that issue.
People resonated that users need more control.
A number of people called out usability as issues they had gained a
lot of insight into as a result of Kim's efforts.
One person suggested having accessibility folks work on good
defaults, along the lines of accessibility being a good test bed for
all usability.
Making Progress on implementation document
Jeanne has noted that sometimes getting small numbers of members
together they can crank through a lot of work on revisions,
implementation details, etc.
<kford> we seem to have lost the phone.
<kford> Do you all hear us?
Jeanne says we need to speed up progress on the Implementation
document. On ATAG a small group got together for a few days and
wrote the whole thing, which was later approved by the wider group.
Jeanne asks if there are preferences between a formal face-to-face,
or have an informal document where people can just work. Either
could allow phone participation.
A number of people would have difficulty traveling this summer, but
pretty much everyone could block out time for remote work.
<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to create a survey of dates when there could
be a Implementation Writer's Meeting [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-ua-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-410 - Create a survey of dates when there
could be a Implementation Writer's Meeting [on Jeanne Spellman - due
2010-07-01].
Jeanne will do a survey to try to find dates that work.
Kelly exhorts everyone to review their action items.
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to create a survey of dates when there could be
a Implementation Writer's Meeting [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-ua-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to send an email to the list with the links and
dates for reviewing the UAAG WD. [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-ua-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to add 2.1.5 proposal to the document. From the
survey [29]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100615/. See
punctuation changes from Kim [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update 3.12.3 with the proposal from Simon,
including the rewording in Greg's comments plus the Intent
paragraph.
[31]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100615/results#xq2. Change
the level to AA. [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update 4.7.1 with the text from
[33]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010AprJun/0110.h
tml. The section "thereby..." is moved into the Intent [recorded in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: SH to write intent and examples for text removed from
4.7.1 to intent section. [recorded in
[35]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: SHarper to write intent and examples for text removed
from 4.7.1 to intent section. [recorded in
[36]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-ua-minutes.html#action05]
[29] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100615/.
[31] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100615/results#xq2.
[33]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010AprJun/0110.html.
[End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 24 June 2010 18:41:50 UTC